Ad Optimization Strategies for Lead Generation with Jenzaia DiMartile

Jennie Wright [00:00:02]:

Hi. This is the Acquire podcast, and I’m Jenny Wright. We’re part of the Odd Phonic podcast network. This podcast dives deep into the world of list building and online events, lead generation, and the whole point is to empower entrepreneurs and marketers with the knowledge and strategies to master these essential growth tactics. In today’s episode, we have a fantastic guest and a local Canadian, Jenziah De Martel. I’m so glad you’re here. Thank you so much.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:00:30]:

Yay. I’m excited to do this.

Jennie Wright [00:00:32]:

Absolutely. And you are not only a Facebook ad strategist, but you’re also a mom, an elementary school teacher. You are the mastermind behind JD teach sorry. JD teach printer marketing, and that is a boutique Facebook ads agency specializing in helping ambitious course creators, service providers, And coaches supercharge their lead generation efforts, grow their lists, and ultimately boost their revenues with incredible offers. Jen Zay’s insights are bound to be completely amazing today, and I’m really excited to dive in. So you know where I’m gonna go with this. We’ve talked a little bit off, before we hit record, and we’re gonna be talking about how we use things like list building, lead generation, and everything in terms of ads. I wanna relate it a little bit to summits, And I wanna talk specifics.

Jennie Wright [00:01:19]:

Now we’re gonna start with numbers. You have 2 people that you’ve worked with in the past, and you’ve got some numbers to share with us. And then I’m gonna move this story backwards and forwards. We’re gonna do a couple other things. But the expertise that you share about, building or using Facebook ads in terms of launches. Were these people that we’re gonna talk about, were these Facebook ads for summits, or were they for something else?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:01:44]:

Yeah. Both of them are for summits. The first one, it’s her 3rd year running the summit, with me, I think it’s the 5th year in total, and then the other one, it was his 2nd year with the with the summit and 1st year running ads to it. So

Jennie Wright [00:02:02]:

So Facebook Ads with summits, do you find before I get into the details, do you find that, running Facebook Ads for summits is Different in a really remarkable or or talkable way than running Facebook ads for, say, like, a lead magnet or a webinar?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:02:20]:

So yes. Yes. Because a lead magnet and my my hesitation there happened because It depends if that webinar is evergreen or if you’re using it in a launch. The main difference between, like, a summit And a lead magnet is just how long you’re running the ads for. Mhmm. When it’s a launch, a webinar could be or a summit could be. It’s typically a shorter time frame, and so you have less time to make adjustments, updates, any tweaks or changes that are needed, versus a lead magnet that’s ongoing or an evergreen webinar that’s ongoing, and you can make those peaks and changes, a little bit more over time, and you can collect data and really lean into that. Whereas those launches, you have to make really quick decisions.

Jennie Wright [00:03:09]:

That makes That makes sense, which also makes me feel like a summit is a really great way to test out your audiences and gather more data. And I think and correct me if I’m wrong. You’re the expert on this. But I think with the summit, if you run that and then you’re really working on that audience And who they are, it would inform very well for, like, a future webinar. It would actually probably make that a little bit more concise in terms of your, like, who you’re targeting with your ads, would that be about right?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:03:39]:

Yeah. I think it could work either way. Okay. If you did a webinar beforehand, Every single promotion that you do can inform the next one, I would say.

Jennie Wright [00:03:50]:

See, I I I was just trying to paint everything that summits are awesome. So that’s just me.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:03:56]:

Well, I I do really like summits, and because of The bigger audience that you’re also drawing in from organic, like, collaboration type leads

Jennie Wright [00:04:05]:

Yeah.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:04:06]:

And that helps you Get into a new niche that way without having to run ads to it and without you having to break into it yourself. So I really like summits for that.

Jennie Wright [00:04:16]:

I love how I love how I love

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:04:18]:

how I love how I

Jennie Wright [00:04:20]:

love how I’m like, yeah. I wanna, like, make summits look good, and you’re like, yeah. I’m gonna jump on and make summits look good with you. Okay. Talk to me about your 1st, the 1st client that you have some results for in terms of running ads for summits. What does that look like? What are Like, so sort of lay the land for us. What did it look like before? And give us all those details.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:04:40]:

Yeah. So back in 2021. So 3 years ago now, we ran her first the one with ads for the 1st time. Like I said, that was her 3rd summit that she was running, and we spend about, oh, about $1300 on ads. Mhmm. So not a huge budget, but we spent most of that budget on registration ads. Actually, no. The entire budget was on registration ads, and she had a VIP upgrade.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:05:10]:

And that’s how I summits are run, and we’ve talked about this before previously that we both agree with that, that the best way to run a summit is the free ticket up front and then a back end sale for a VIP or all access pass, whatever you wanna call it.

Jennie Wright [00:05:26]:

Mhmm.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:05:27]:

And so that’s exactly how she had it set up. And that 1st year, the return on ad spend was about $1200. So we it was about 90% return on ad spend. So she actually spent more than she made, And this those sales could be directly attributed back to the ads, which is is a good spot to be. Mhmm. She only spent $100, and she added Over 1500 people to her list

Jennie Wright [00:05:51]:

for a 1000000. Really, really good.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:05:54]:

It’s so good. Right? That’s amazing. Of those. Yeah. And so when you look at it, it’s like 90% return on ad spend. You’re kinda like, poo poo. I lost money. But You only spend $100 and now have over 1500 new people on your list, and she also has a membership on the back end that she was selling people into And so that we didn’t track in comparison to the ads, but I know that since 2021, some of those 1500 people have definitely joined her her,

Jennie Wright [00:06:25]:

Oh, for sure.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:06:25]:

There’s no no problem in my mind about that.

Jennie Wright [00:06:28]:

Absolutely. And if you’re so say she didn’t run those ads. She didn’t spend that $2,800, you said, to get About

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:06:37]:

that. Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:06:37]:

About that, and she got 1500 registrations. Had she not spent that money, What kind of list build would she have gotten? Did she have any organic growth that wasn’t attributed to the ads?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:06:49]:

Yeah. So I don’t actually have that information because it was separate and it didn’t track, but there was also affiliates that were Getting sign ups for her, she did her own organic marketing through her email list and everything like that. So there was also that growth that happened. Mhmm. But, Typically, I would say that depending on the budget of the ads, anywhere from, like, 10 to 30% of your summit registrations will come from your ads. Mhmm. So she would have lost out she still would have lost out of over 1500 people going on to her email list.

Jennie Wright [00:07:21]:

And for those of us huge. It is massive, actually. And for those of us who don’t do math well in their heads, she spent $1400, got 1500 you know, 1500 people attributed. So each lead cost her how much?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:07:36]:

Okay. Less than dollar. Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:07:38]:

Do you know how much it normally costs to get, a lead I mean, I’m sure you do. Like, the normal cost per lead right now that I’m seeing is anywhere between, at least on my side of things, anywhere between about 10 to $30 per lead. It’s a huge swing, but it depends on the summit. It depends on what you’re doing. 1 doll and even if you’re just doing organic, $1 per lead in any way, whatever you’re spending on your summit, that’s an amazing return on investment.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:08:07]:

Now for con this client, I run her lead generation Mhmm. To lead magnets and opt ins as well, we typically get about 30¢ leads there, which on an on an opt in probably for your audience It’s gonna be closer to that 2 to $5 mark. Mhmm. Her cost per lead based on her audience are low, But even still, less than a dollar for a summit is absolutely insane. Absolutely insane.

Jennie Wright [00:08:36]:

It’s so good. It’s, It I haven’t seen numbers like that quite honestly in years, in years. Like, probably 6 or 7, maybe even yeah. 6 or 7 years. The the prices have just seem to have gone up. So you’re doing you’re obviously doing something really, really well. And that’s great. You’ve probably done a lot of tracking and data and analysis and God knows what else to try and make that work, and that’s awesome.

Jennie Wright [00:08:58]:

So that’s that’s a really great example. You had another example to share with us. What what happened with that person?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:09:04]:

Move on to the other Yeah. Sorry. Before we move on to the other example, that was her 2021. We also ran it in 2022 and then 2023. So I won’t give you everything. I’ll just Skip over to this year’s summit. And so this is a difference that, like, running the same thing.

Jennie Wright [00:09:20]:

All of it. Tell us everything. Take all the time you want.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:09:23]:

Yeah. So in 2022, we we spent we only spent about $1,000, and we also got fewer registrations. So we got 500 leads, which costs about $2 a lead. So there was a spike that happened in her cost per leads. There was a lot that was going on in the online advertising space. Like, that does make sense. But the crazy thing because we took what we learned from the year before, her Sales from the VIP that can be directly attributed to the ads were over $2,000. And so her return on her ad spend, The 2nd year that we ran ads was almost 200%.

Jennie Wright [00:10:03]:

That’s that’s huge. Huge growth.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:10:05]:

Yeah. From 90% return on ad To 200%. She got fewer lead, absolutely, but Made her money back. So all of that 5 those 500 leads were absolutely free, which is crazy awesome.

Jennie Wright [00:10:21]:

Yes.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:10:21]:

And There was that, like, really amazing growth. And then this year, we spent about $2,000, so Budget went up again Mhmm. And we got 1700 people onto our list, so best year ever. Because the budget was bigger, The cost per lead was a dollar 21, which is still a phenomenal rate. Yeah. Phenomenal. Dollar 21 for lead and but her sales was were nearly $8,000. So her return on ad spend this year was 380%.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:10:56]:

So, like, that growth that she made and, like, I get goosebumps when I talk about it because it’s it’s crazy. It’s just crazy. You could get so, like, lost in the numbers and say, well, in 2021, if that’s your 1st year running ads, well, I lost money. It’s not worth it. Not interested. Or you can do like a client did. Stick with it, learn from it, make those changes, updates, improvements, and then in year 3 of running ads, Quadruple what she spent. Like Yeah.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:11:27]:

The almost 400 on Advent is absolutely insane for a summit.

Jennie Wright [00:11:32]:

It’s, yeah. I I mean, it’s pretty much unheard of. So that should make you in high demand just for that, by the way. No. I really I mean

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:11:42]:

I love doing summits too. I really love doing summits. So

Jennie Wright [00:11:46]:

We can’t discount what the I mean, what that means. 1700 people on your list It can mean the difference between filling your program and, you know, making 60, 70, $80,000 depending on the price of your program and literally not. Right? That I mean and I have no problem actually with the 2nd summit being a smaller list build. There was a lot going on at that time. Ad spends yeah. So much. I mean, hi. Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:12:15]:

But there was there was so much going on, but only that, the prices were ridiculous at the time. I know things have kinda settled a little bit, which is obviously better. But considering, not bad. Not bad. So she stuck with it. She’s seen a ton of really great results. How indicative would you say that situation is of what you can replicate for other people, in your opinion. Not that I’m expecting that you can, but just asking your opinion.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:12:45]:

I think that there’s a lot that goes into it, and I feel pretty of being able to replicate, like, her 1st year for someone else’s 1st year. Mhmm. And then that growth that you can build on per year. And like I said, using What works well and continuing to amplify it every year, I feel like if someone’s willing to do that work and be in, that those are very Replicable results. Absolutely.

Jennie Wright [00:13:15]:

What I was gonna what I was gonna pull from all of this and sort of Bring it back to launches and whatnot is that I’ve focused for a long time just on the organic side, Done pretty good. I’m gonna pat myself on the back on terms of, like, the organic growth. I have zero skill on Facebook ads, which is why I refer people to you. Go talk to Jen Zayo. Let her help you. I you know, that’s that’s my that’s my that’s my Facebook ads strategy, by the way. Just go to you. So You? No problem.

Jennie Wright [00:13:49]:

I think a key part of the success with Facebook Ads is probably understanding your audience to a really heightened degree. Like, it is correct me if I’m wrong, but it should be the niciest of niches When you’re looking at creating Facebook ads, can you kind of explain the common thread between successful Ad campaigns for things like summits or other types of launches. And can you elaborate, like, how deeply do you go into understanding your clients’ audiences?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:14:22]:

Well, yeah, it a 100% correlates. The people who know their audience really, really well and can pull out the vocabulary And the phrases that their audience is using about their pain points, their struggles, their challenges, their ads better every single time because they just resonate So much more with the person who’s seeing the ad. So knowing who you are targeting and who you’re speaking to is Possibly the most important piece. And a lot of people think that it’s like, oh, the the targeting’s wrong or my the audience is wrong or it’s the wrong offer. But I would say 9 times out of 10, it comes down to the messaging. And if an ad isn’t working, then finding a different angle, Finding a different way to say the same thing that’s going to resonate more is actually what will change the results. Throwing the offer out is not is not the answer in my opinion.

Jennie Wright [00:15:18]:

I agree with you, and I think people quit too too quickly. And there seems to be 2 camps when it comes to Facebook ads. It’s the people who think they can do it completely on their own, And they may be they very well may be able to do it. And then there’s people who don’t know how to do it at all, but are also really afraid to spend the money

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:15:40]:

Mhmm.

Jennie Wright [00:15:40]:

On it, lest it not work for them. And there’s, oh, I guess, obviously, there’s a 3rd camp of people who are like, your client. Yeah. Let’s put money towards it. Let’s make it happen. How do you is it worth or how do you, like, change people’s minds about Facebook advertising? How do you get them to see that This is a really valuable thing they can do in their business, and it doesn’t have to break the bank.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:16:05]:

I think people are afraid of just throwing money out the window and not seeing a return. And then they’re also really afraid of breaking the Facebook ad platform. They’ve heard of horror stories where people’s ads or accounts have been Blocked and shut down and and for no reason. And I put that in quotations because I’m sure I’m a 100% sure there are situations where it wasn’t a valid reason. But most of the time, if your ad account is gonna shut down or your ads are gonna get shut down. There is a very clear reason. You probably know. You see it coming.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:16:45]:

You’re advertising on things that are question mark, like income, dieting, Those types of ads Mhmm. And you’re trying to get around the regulations. So if you’re not doing that, your ad Probably won’t be shut down. Your account won’t be shut down. And if it is, then you can appeal, and it will get Put back up really, really quickly. I’ve never ever had a client whose account has just been shut for no reason. And anytime it’s been shut down, An ad has been shut down. We have been able to make the changes that are required, and get it appealed.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:17:23]:

Or If there was no actual problem and it was just the the bots, that’s that’s kind of responding to the one fear people have If you’re probably not gonna break the Facebook ad platform, you’re probably not gonna get completely shut down. Second1 is that fear of just, like, Throw money out the window. Yeah. And I totally understand it. I I do totally understand it, and that’s why I I think it’s really important to have a holistic marketing strategy in place where you’re emailing your list on a regular basis, you’re creating valuable content of store and you’re really, like, trying to show up in and not just let the ads do the work and then ghost people. And so If you’re doing that and you’re emailing your list consistently and you’re selling to your list, then growing your email list might not be, Like a financial return on ad spend, but there is that the number growth, and you can kinda see a correlation there Mhmm. Which I helps some of my clients at least get started. Yeah.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:18:25]:

I don’t think forever your ads should just be growing your list. At some point, the ads should help to increase your sales as well. But if you’re afraid of throwing money out, then list building ads are a really great place to start because you can see a return. As your email list grows, there’s that feeling of, oh, something is happening. So and that’s a really good way to combat it Initially. Mhmm. If that makes sense.

Jennie Wright [00:18:53]:

It does. It really, really does.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:18:55]:

Do you

Jennie Wright [00:18:55]:

ever look at an online event? Mostly let’s talk summits. Okay? Because it’s got a long promo period. In most cases, a a summit promo period is anywhere between 2 weeks, 3 weeks. I like to do 4 weeks for the ones for my clients. And I like to do especially with if we have a Facebook ads person on staff now, like, part of the team, I like to do what’s called runway. Like, I like the pre promo space to be running awareness campaigns, getting stuff to, you know, getting stuff to a blog post, getting stuff to a lead magnet, anything where we can create some interaction and some click throughs. What is your favorite style of awareness ads prior to something like a summit? What do you prefer that people do?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:19:41]:

So exactly what you said actually. Pure awareness ads where you’re driving traffic to that long form content, typically, it’s either gonna be a blog post. If you have Podcast, I still recommend that you send the traffic to the blog post, like the show notes associated with your podcast. Okay. Or it could be video content. So you’re do lives on Facebook or on Instagram. You can drive the traffic to those videos as well. Okay.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:20:04]:

Either one of the and then retargeting anyone who consumes that content with a list building ad so that you can then get them onto your email list Presummit. And then with the registration ads, those are also list building and lead generation ads. So Absolutely. Yeah. Agree. Exactly what you said.

Jennie Wright [00:20:23]:

So what do you do after a summit? What kind of ad structure would you recommend people do? Is there another retargeting campaign that you’d suggest?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:20:32]:

So immediately after the summit, if you have an open cart period, you can absolutely retarget summit participants to The open cart and to keep them keep keep whatever program or offer that you’re running top of mind. Mhmm. Something like that, Probably want to keep the audience that’s seeing those ads to summit participants exclusively. You wouldn’t wanna be Posting like those to everybody. Mhmm. And then always lead generation always lead generation, growing our list Because there’s always people that are unsubscribing or not consuming or falling off for other reason that If you’re not kind of replacing them, then your email list is kind of shrinking. And so constantly growing your email list, especially if you’re a course creator or you have a group program that you need As many eyes as possible to keep those enrollments rolling in.

Jennie Wright [00:21:31]:

Absolutely. Would you Yeah. I I like the idea of having it go to the cart open. And you made me think while you were talking, I’m I’m picturing the whole funnel in my head. And I’m wondering about, book a call funnels. A lot of my clients like to do lead generation to high end programs, like high ticket programs. Those pretty much all require a call. And we try and include the the strategy of getting them into the call on the summit.

Jennie Wright [00:22:02]:

However, it doesn’t always, you know, pan out a 100%. Our book a call funnels or those types of lead generation funnels in terms of, like, paid advertising, do those work?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:22:16]:

I’ve never run a book of funnels. I don’t have any personal experience with that. Mhmm. I’ve ever really positive feedback from others And experience us as more positive experiences in exactly what you’re saying. Like, a summit or some sort of open or, Launch event where book a call is the call to action and then running retargeting ads the same way you would for an open cart, but to booking that call. Again, keeping it within the people who have, in some way or another, expressed an interest in the mastermind, in the program, whatever it might be, and book a call, those are really great for the big like you said, the higher cost programs when it’s a 5 figure plus investment because it has that personal touch, and anything to just keep the the sit like, the requirements top of mind. So Absolutely. To get in this program, you need to get on a call reminding people that the program is open, book a call.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:23:15]:

You only have 5 days left to book a call. I could totally see how that would be Yeah. A good choice, but I wouldn’t both. You need to in a situation like that, you wanna really pick. Are you promoting An application or book a call or the sales pay like, oh, just one of them. Not confusing people, but, like, I don’t know what action to take because I saw an application ad and then I saw a book a call ad, and now I’m seeing a like, I don’t know what to do, so I’m gonna do nothing. So just picking 1 call to action, I would be my main recommendation.

Jennie Wright [00:23:47]:

I think that’s a strong strategy. I am always I’m in alignment with that because I don’t want people to get confused, and I think we easily when we’re trying to please all people or find all the people or open ourselves up to all the potential sales, We do tend to go this wide route. I see it a lot just in social media, especially post summit. And I always tell my clients, we are gonna be as focused after the summit as we were before and during. Like, we’re not gonna go and go willy nilly after the event. We are we’re gonna stay focused. We’re gonna stay on track because that’s the thing that creates the success. Right? Rinse and repeat.

Jennie Wright [00:24:25]:

Do it again and again. When you’re looking to get into the, you know, the nitty gritty of running ads for a webinar or launch, like that client’s membership or even a summit. What are you looking at at the funnel? And Where are your recommendations, or what do you see that might be or, like, walk me through the steps of what you look at And what you would recommend to people that, like, might need changing for the success of the ad, can you have like, example, can you have an ugly landing page and still do successful Facebook ads. Does the page have to look a certain way? Like, what are your steps to ensure success on that side. Because, again, we can write amazing copy for ads. We can create amazing creative. But if they land on something that doesn’t jive with it, We’re we’re gonna have problems.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:25:19]:

So I think congruency is really important.

Jennie Wright [00:25:22]:

Mhmm.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:25:22]:

And what I mean by that is when somebody goes from an ad or Social media post or Pinterest and whatever it is to the landing page. Does is there a connection there? And then from that landing page To the thank you page, is there connection there? And then to the sales page, is there connection there? Like, every step along the way, does the person know where they came from? Because well, First of all, if you click on an ad and it opens and you’re like, what is this? We’ve all had that experience where there’s, like, a spam bot kind of ad, and you’re like, I have no idea how I got here, and it literally happened 30 seconds ago. So you don’t want that. But you also don’t want the person who has 73 tabs open to have got Called away because their daughter’s screaming, and now they have to go. And when they come back, they’re like, what’s this? And they’re just gonna close it. But if they’re like, oh, yeah. Well, that’s the same picture or the same vibe or energy that it from the ad I saw or the social media post, Pinterest pin, whatever it is, They’re and remember, they’re more likely to finish that journey. And so that congruency piece so that Someone in their brain can connect the pieces is really important.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:26:28]:

So ugly ad or ugly Facebook ads, ugly landing pages can work. Absolutely. But simplicity is the most important thing. I would say simplicity of, like, do they need to scroll to figure out what to do, or is there just a form and they’re, like, Sign up now button right there immediately.

Jennie Wright [00:26:47]:

Okay.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:26:47]:

You don’t want people to have too much brainpower. I don’t mean to be rude, but, like, we’re stupid. We’re not. Right? Don’t mean to be mean, but we’re dumb.

Jennie Wright [00:27:00]:

And lazy. Like, We don’t want to scroll through the whole

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:27:03]:

thing about it. Yeah. We don’t want we don’t want we want it to be, like, immediate access Right there, I know what to do. I know how to do it. I don’t have to think about it. I don’t have to find it. So that form and the button that the person has to press After they’ve signed up, should be above the fold, which is like an old school digital or old school marketing term for newspapers Above the fold on the front page, the person doesn’t even have to open the newspaper. Right? And it’s the same thing online, but it more means, like, they don’t have to scroll down.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:27:34]:

So That’s my biggest thing. And then on the thank you page so if we have connection and congruency from all there, on the thank you page, that is Really, really valuable real estate that, people don’t always take advantage of. If you have a summit with a VIP upgrade, it’s probably gonna be a sales page for that VIP upgrade. But if it’s just like a free lead magnet or a webinar or something saying, thank you, check your inbox, You’re wasting that page Yes. And you want there to be step. It doesn’t need to be a sale. It doesn’t have to be a sale, but it needs to be a next step. So some of my personal lead magnets, the next step is join the Facebook group.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:28:16]:

Mhmm. Some of them, it’s there’s a quick, like, 2 minute video about the call and then a a like, a button to book a call.

Jennie Wright [00:28:26]:

Nice.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:28:27]:

Right? So there’s always a next step because if you think of the, like, inertia, when we’re in motion, We continue in motion. And so if someone said yes, I’m gonna give you my email address. They’re in motion. They’re saying yes. So what’s the next thing that they can say yes to? If it’s right there on the thank you page, they’re more likely to continue saying yes to you. You wanna make it really easy. And this is another place that I find people either have nothing Or they have, like, 40 things, and you’re just like, no. 1.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:28:55]:

So on that thank you Thanks. Just one next step. Oh, one. Yeah. Sorry. Just one. I I’m a little bit passionate about thank you pages,

Jennie Wright [00:29:11]:

but there’s nothing to there’s nothing to apologize for. I’m I’m laughing Because it’s true. There’s there’s usually either it’s either 40 things or it’s nothing, or it’s, thanks. Check your email. Okay. Thanks for that. I will now go check my email. Have a nice day.

Jennie Wright [00:29:32]:

There there’s no there’s no that you know, there’s none of that continuation that relationship building or the opportunity to again, like you said, there’s inertia. Like, once they’re in their motion, let’s keep them going. Let’s get them moving on something. In my personal opinion I will. Go ahead.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:29:48]:

I was just gonna say I will put it in 1 caveat there as if you have double opt in Turned on at the person.

Jennie Wright [00:29:56]:

Sorry.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:29:56]:

I had

Jennie Wright [00:29:57]:

a very visceral reaction now.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:29:59]:

You you did. If you have double opt in turned on, It it really does. Your your call to action on the thank you page really does need to be Go to your inbox.

Jennie Wright [00:30:12]:

Yes.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:30:12]:

Say yes. You want my email. Yes. Because I’ve double opt like, you need to make that very explicit because otherwise people might not. So if you have double opt in, then that is your call to action. Go to your email box. Do the things that you need to do to say yes. Yes.

Jennie Wright [00:30:30]:

But And you

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:30:30]:

don’t need to have double opt in turned on. Thank you. Jenny and I have similar feelings about double opt Then

Jennie Wright [00:30:37]:

How could you tell my feelings, Jenziah? How could you tell? How could you

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:30:42]:

tell it’s not something I like? I wonder. Slight a slight negative reaction just Just a little bit. I wish that this is like where they could reroll the like, rewind the tapes and just, like, you could re put in your like.

Jennie Wright [00:30:55]:

I didn’t even yeah. For those for those who aren’t seeing this on video and you’re listening to it, go to the YouTube channel and, just fast forward to this point because the look on my face probably was, something you could screen capture. My eyes closed and total exasperation. There’s things you can do that I think and I won’t I promise you I’m not gonna go off on a tangent, but there is a reason for double opt in and then there is a reason not to use it. And if you’re in if you’re in the business of acquiring leads and growing your email list, I don’t use a double opt in. What I do do is I make sure that do do. May I do make sure my landing page, make sure that the right people register because I always have a section on my landing pages that say either this is for you or this is not. So I always create that, You know, before you register, is this the right thing for you? And I think that helps get some of the, you know, People that don’t need to be part of this out of there, but I always I never use the double opt in.

Jennie Wright [00:32:01]:

Do you know how many people click on that bloody double opt in email? Like, it’s low. It’s really, really low. So you could have double opt in. You could have 2,000 people sign up for your thing. And And because you have a double opt in and they don’t see the email because a lot of people don’t, you could end up with, like, 500 people who are confirmed.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:32:21]:

Mhmm.

Jennie Wright [00:32:21]:

It’s it’s a hot mess.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:32:23]:

I really 1500 people 1500 people were like, where’s the freebie? I want the freebie. Can’t figure out how to get the freebie. Yeah. And just, like, forget that you exist and

Jennie Wright [00:32:35]:

Exactly. And then they never got the freebie, and they never did anything. There was no action taken anywhere. They didn’t join the Facebook group. They didn’t get your follow-up emails. Anyways, long tangent, but let me ask you this, and this goes back to your process And, obviously, congruency between the ads and the landing page and, you know, you’re passionate about thank you pages, so am I. We’re on the same page there. Have you ever looked at a landing page, or do you look at the landing pages and maybe the offers even? And do you have, like, feelings about that that you relay to the client saying, You know, the way the page is looking right now, I think there’s changes that need to be made so that the landing page will convert better and things like that, or do you just like, what’s your process there?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:33:19]:

So, the first thing that actually came to my mind is my 2nd client ever. She had a freebie opt in and had a full sales page for it. Like, a full long It was crazy. And I remember going back to her and just saying, I really think we need to do a short landing page that just has the top. And her response was no. Not interested. So I was like, okay. And we ran the ads, and we actually, in the end, ended up running a long page and a short page.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:33:50]:

And her long sales page format of a landing page for a freebie actually did convert better for her audience. And so I do have feelings sometimes about landing pages, and I’m not always right. Statistically, the short page would probably convert better if you took a 100 different businesses.

Jennie Wright [00:34:13]:

And But that’s the that’s the glory of

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:34:14]:

off the board?

Jennie Wright [00:34:15]:

That’s the glory of the AB testing. Yes.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:34:19]:

You know? Yes. And that’s that’s the important thing. So, typically, I will give my feedback to the client, say, for something like, your button isn’t picking out. I I can’t immediately see the button, or the headline doesn’t make sense to me. Is there any way we could clear it up?

Jennie Wright [00:34:34]:

Mhmm.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:34:34]:

But I don’t typically do that until after we’ve ran the ad done the testing phase of the ads because One of the requirements that I I ask of my clients is that whatever we’re running the ad to is proven that they’ve already got organic Sign ups.

Jennie Wright [00:34:50]:

Mhmm.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:34:51]:

And so, typically, that means the page does convert. So then the question is, Is it not converting because we’re now drawing cold audiences in who don’t know you and have the same response of, like, I don’t understand this headline or whatever it is, Or is there a bigger problem? Like, where is that issue? But sometimes it does work, and then there’s no reason to change it because it is working. But looking at the landing page, looking at the freebie, looking at the flow of everything is part of the process, and then giving feedback especially throughout running the ads.

Jennie Wright [00:35:27]:

Yeah. I can see how that makes a difference. I know that, there was somebody that I worked with years ago, And they would look at all the different levels of the funnel, and they would comment on what the offers and things like that were. So they wanted to really understand All the different permutations of what everything looked like so they could, ensure that the ads would perform better in this, that, and the other. Did it work? Yeah. Sometimes. Not all the time, but it did absolutely help to have somebody who’s got a keen eye for at least conversion tactics and marketing and things like that to understand how these pages can be improved or where there might be, like, a lack of congruency between the offer or the like, all those different things. It’s always good.

Jennie Wright [00:36:11]:

It’s always good. And by the way Yeah. You were talking about having a page that’s or that’s proven. I have a landing page right now. I am not kidding you. The month of September, it’s been performing at 98.9%.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:36:23]:

That is amazing.

Jennie Wright [00:36:24]:

98.9% opt in rate on this this landing page for a lead magnet of mine. And we’re running like, the people don’t know me. They’re they’re running off of a, They’re they’re running off of a, like, a a giveaway, and they’re going to that page, and we’re getting 98%. I’m super curious if we ran ads So that what that would look like, like, what that percentage would change to, because I know it would. But I’m very curious. I know that this at least like, it’s proven the page works, but it’s with a very different type of audience. So

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:36:56]:

Well and I was thinking, as you said, that typically I See, opt in rates that high with pop ups. So when some of my clients use Leadpages and they use their pop a feature Mhmm. With a blog post instead of a landing page. And you typically see conversion rates up in the nineties, 95, 98 With those pop ups because somebody has already already decided that they’re going to download it before they click the The button and then the pop up comes. They’ve already made that decision. They sign they fill it out and they move on. Right? Yep. Versus a landing page where they end up there, are looking at the information, made their decision, and will click out.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:37:39]:

So I’m wondering, when you say it’s a giveaway, is there, like, an information bubble or something else Associated with you and your freebie that they’ve already made a decision before they even open your landing page?

Jennie Wright [00:37:51]:

Yes. There’s a graphic

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:37:52]:

Right. So that

Jennie Wright [00:37:53]:

sentence and a button.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:37:54]:

That might play in.

Jennie Wright [00:37:56]:

Okay.

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:37:56]:

Alright. That makes sense. Trusted you were trusted by whoever’s hosting the giveaway to be part of the giveaway, and they might have a little bit of knowledge of you through the giveaway that that might be that might play a part into it. But I would also say that, like, Thought that’s a really good conversion rate, and seeing how it did with cold audiences outside of that container would be really interesting.

Jennie Wright [00:38:20]:

Yeah. I’m I’m actually I I’m very curious. My interest is piqued to see what that would kinda look like. It really is. Alright. Let’s wrap this up. We’ve been we could keep going. You and I have notoriously had incredibly long conversations in this space.

Jennie Wright [00:38:35]:

And to honor the podcast, we’re like I’m looking at the countdown going, okay. We should probably wrap this up. We’ll have to have you back on. Obviously, there’s too many things for us to talk about and too many things to laugh about that is for real. So can you can you sort of walk us out on, Just your final thoughts in terms of Facebook ad strategy for lead magnets and list generation and sales and what you’d recommend to people?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:39:04]:

So I guess the advice that I typically give is to take babies. Even if you’re afraid, even if you’re not sure, that Taking those baby steps is a really great way to get started, and and then you can kind of slowly expand Further, you don’t have to start spending $10,000 a month to have As I shared in that case study, she was only spending $1,000, 2,000 and had a huge amount of success. So baby steps is the advice I typically give everybody.

Jennie Wright [00:39:39]:

I like that. And where can everybody sort of find you, connect with you? What would you tell people to go and find you, and Where would you go tell people to find you, I should say?

Jenzaia DiMartile [00:39:51]:

So the best place is, my own podcast, Market Scale Grow. You can go to mariskellgro.comforward/listen now to hear the most recent episode, and I’m also on Instagram at hey its jenziah. So those those are the 2 spots.

Jennie Wright [00:40:06]:

Absolutely. And you do really good stories on Instagram. I’m always checking your stories out. Thanks. Absolutely. Thank you so much for doing this, Jenziah. You’re amazing. Such incredible insights and experiences into the world of Facebook ad strategy with list generation or sorry, lead generation, list building, and launches.

Jennie Wright [00:40:25]:

If you’re looking to amplify your lead generation efforts, grow your email list, And make more money with your offers, be sure to connect with Jenziah. She’s amazing, and explore everything she can do for your business. And if you found this episode valuable, please make sure to subscribe, and I’d love to get a review. I’d love to hear what you’re thinking, and you can also go to the Odd Phonic podcast network website@oddphonic.com, and check out the show notes for this page. I’ll make sure that Jen Zay’s podcast is listed so you can go and see that as well. Thanks so much, and we’ll be back soon with some other great content.