Exploring Digital Marketing Trends: From the Real Squid Games to Authenticity: Exploring with Jason Wiehler

Jennie Wright [00:00:01]:

Hi. This is the Acquire podcast from the Odd Phonic Podcast Network, and I’m Jenny Wright. Alright. So occasionally I like to do this and this is going to be one of those episodes, we have Jason Wheelerback. He is a niche marketing specialist, he’s also the editor and producer of this podcast, and Jason, I’m just glad you’re back.

Jason Wiehler [00:00:21]:

Thanks for having me for the 2nd time.

Jennie Wright [00:00:24]:

And not the last.

Jason Wiehler [00:00:25]:

Do I get a jacket?

Jennie Wright [00:00:26]:

No right now you get a sticker. Jackets come later you haven’t hit the 10 episode milestone.

Jason Wiehler [00:00:31]:

10, great.

Jennie Wright [00:00:34]:

Maybe 10 episodes you’ll get a muck.

Jason Wiehler [00:00:37]:

Oh okay.

Jennie Wright [00:00:38]:

Jacket at what 50 episodes maybe? Longevity? No. Absolutely. Alright. I have to talk to you about this because it I became obsessed and it’s a guilty pleasure, but have you watched I know you have, but what did you think of Squid Games? The Netflix challenge of Squid Games.

Jason Wiehler [00:01:01]:

I’m just glad I didn’t watch the original one because I think it would have ruined the best.

Jennie Wright [00:01:07]:

And the reason I’m bringing it up is is not because I wanna talk TV shows but necessarily but the marketing behind it was something that really interested me and I then I got completely hooked on this show. It doesn’t take much and, binged all 5 episodes in under 24 hours hours.

Jason Wiehler [00:01:25]:

I remember when people were talking about this show, and I felt like there was a whole group of people in society that like snuff films, and I didn’t appreciate that. So I didn’t watch the original one.

Jennie Wright [00:01:38]:

Okay.

Jason Wiehler [00:01:39]:

But there was a lot of people that said, you know, if they ever had, like, an actual squid game, like, The same kind of thing, but without the killing, I do it. I play those games. And I guess they were listening because they did it, And then a sucker like me ends up watching it.

Jennie Wright [00:01:58]:

And there’s a lot of money involved and it was in like, in various aspects, it was cringeworthy. Many times I was like, and then other times I was like, this is really great marketing. And then on the other side of it, I was like, okay. This is just pure enjoyment. But why? Why was it enjoying? You know what? It was it it wasn’t completely done. There was, like, strategy in it. Strategy was really great actually because you were vying for, position you wanna survive till the end to make the what is it? $4,536,000 or something like that. And that just made my it was just playing into a certain part of my brain where I love the strategy piece, and then and it sort of delighted the marketing side of things too.

Jennie Wright [00:02:42]:

I don’t know why.

Jason Wiehler [00:02:43]:

Well, there’s a lot of people, I guess, the competitors and people that were watching, they sort of assumed that they knew what games were gonna be played. And I’m just glad I never saw the original because I had no idea what the games were gonna be like. I had some ideas When it came to that 1st game, I don’t know what it’s actually called, but there’s a dog called, and it just

Jennie Wright [00:03:05]:

red

Jason Wiehler [00:03:05]:

light bulb It freaks me out a little bit. Yeah. But I think it was more suspenseful by not seeing the original. But what I I guess I had the luxury of noticing is where things seemed a little bit contrived, which I found there was very little except for the way they were Sort of, like, focusing in on a few people. But I found that there was a lot of authenticity In the way some of these people were coming off, even though some of those people, after they were outed from the show, Claim that that’s not how they really are, but I honestly believe that’s how they really are because there’s some real jerks in that show. Completely. But I think I think overall, it was It was pretty authentic, like, the people that were competing in it, and it’s interesting.

Jennie Wright [00:03:51]:

What got me because you just sort of alluded to it was not knowing what game is coming next, and the people on the show were sort of positioning and propping themselves up being like, oh, yeah. The next one’s gonna be tug of war and and, you know, let me get me and my buds and I’ll and I don’t wanna, you know

Jason Wiehler [00:04:08]:

Don’t ruin it for anybody.

Jennie Wright [00:04:09]:

Not gonna ruin it, but it was there was a lot of posturing happening.

Jason Wiehler [00:04:13]:

Yeah. But there was some people that cracked too.

Jennie Wright [00:04:14]:

And there was some oh my god. Was there ever some people that cracked? So you’re you’re seeing all these different dichotomies of people. And, yeah, there’s some authentic people that are just, like, losing their minds in there. And, you know, when you’re talking about authenticity, obviously, that term has been talked about over talked about potentially even, dragged through the mud a few times and did whatever the heck.

Jason Wiehler [00:04:36]:

What year was it the buzzword?

Jennie Wright [00:04:38]:

2020 19 or 2020?

Jason Wiehler [00:04:41]:

No. I think it was I think it was earlier. I think it was, like, 2015. Really? 2014, 2015. Oh,

Jennie Wright [00:04:48]:

you’re right.

Jason Wiehler [00:04:48]:

And it probably had a good 3 or 4 year span until people finally were like, oh, If you say authentic, you’re not authentic.

Jennie Wright [00:04:55]:

Yep. Yeah. Because now you’re saying, you know, if you say you’re an alpha, then you’re not an alpha.

Jason Wiehler [00:04:59]:

Well, that’s true.

Jennie Wright [00:05:03]:

I think so too. That’s the funny part. Oh my gosh. Okay well with authenticity in our, you know, in our marketing businesses and the way that we actually portray content, the way we email our lists, where do you think that’s gonna go if authenticity is no longer the buzzword? What’s going to be the buzzword?

Jason Wiehler [00:05:22]:

This is the funny part. Authenticity isn’t the buzzword. It should be done, but not said. In other words, I think people have moved so far past it.

Jennie Wright [00:05:34]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:05:35]:

People can recognize authenticity. They know it when they feel it, when they see it, when they hear it, they know it. If you’re that person that has to tell them, hey. Look here. This is authentic. I have a lot of authenticity, Then you’re not doing your job right.

Jennie Wright [00:05:54]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:05:55]:

I think if you understand having brand as a feeling, Then authenticity has to come across in your branding without having to actually say it as your buzzword.

Jennie Wright [00:06:08]:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think if you don’t talk about it and and one of the things that I really wanna focus on myself in the next 12 to 18 months is brand recognition. As we get even more diluted with a lot of people coming into the sort of the digital space, there’s always dilution in what people are saying. Right? So, you know, 10 or 15 years ago, if you wanted to run a summit, you didn’t have to have a distinguishable brand. You didn’t have to be niched in. You could throw up a really crappy looking summit, ask me how I know,

Jason Wiehler [00:06:51]:

No. I have to disagree a little bit.

Jennie Wright [00:06:53]:

Really? You

Jason Wiehler [00:06:53]:

had to be you had to be niched in. You just didn’t have as much competition online.

Jennie Wright [00:06:58]:

Okay. Yes. I agree with you on there wasn’t a lot of competition, but I disagree that you had to be niched in. And you know why? Because back then and I and I’ve I’ve shared with this this with you in the past that people could just throw anything up, any topic, and it wasn’t each and it was completely broad. You know how to build a dream business, there’s an example, and you would still get people to sign up?

Jason Wiehler [00:07:23]:

Yes. You could still get people to sign up, But niche isn’t just about getting anybody to sign up by saying anything.

Jennie Wright [00:07:30]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:07:31]:

You have your own Capability is the thing, your product, your services, what you help people with. That’s your niche. Right? So if you go out and say something like What was it you just said?

Jennie Wright [00:07:44]:

Build your dream build your dream business.

Jason Wiehler [00:07:46]:

Okay. Build your dream business, and you’re an accountant. Right? Mhmm. You’re gonna be attracting a whole lot of people that might not really need specifically what you’re offering. So you still wanted to be niched in, and there were people that were niched back then. Yeah. And they attracted the right people. There’s a lot of people that didn’t do the niching and in their marketing, and they did track they did attract in a lot of people.

Jason Wiehler [00:08:08]:

Mhmm. But their real core people that would have bought off of them or they they could service or sell products to were like needles in a haystack. They’d get a 50,000 person list. Lo and behold, there’s only, like, 500 people in there that are actually the real ideal clients.

Jennie Wright [00:08:24]:

I have to agree with you there. Okay. I have to completely agree with you there. And then and then the amount of unsubscribes and stuff like that that would come, which makes me think a little bit more about email marketing. And I want I wanted to ask you, where do you think the trend is gonna go with email marketing and, like, email lists and newsletters and such in the next 12 to 16 months, do you think anything’s gonna take down you know, email list is, like, the king?

Jason Wiehler [00:08:53]:

Well, you’d be a better person to answer this question, but I’ll give you my side of it, and then you can say your side of it. Until a social media app gives people the ability to directly contact their followers anytime they want, Any way they want, I can’t see it changing.

Jennie Wright [00:09:12]:

Meaning, if there was an app that allowed you to, like, send, like, a mass

Jason Wiehler [00:09:16]:

If you have a 1,000 followers on Instagram and you are able to say, I wanna send this particular post or this particular ad to All those 1,000 people, and I know for sure they’re gonna get it.

Jennie Wright [00:09:29]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:09:30]:

Right? It’ll be in some sort of Instagram inbox, And I know for sure they’re going to see it Mhmm. Then that’s the only way you’re gonna be able to dethrone email lists.

Jennie Wright [00:09:41]:

Okay.

Jason Wiehler [00:09:42]:

Email lists Dethroned, to some extent, the door knocker and the person doing telemarketing over the phone and mail.

Jennie Wright [00:09:52]:

Okay.

Jason Wiehler [00:09:53]:

Right? Because it’s cheaper, it’s more efficient, and it’s direct. Right? And you can also You can also measure results on email marketing. You send it out. You know how many people opened it. You know how many of those people actually reacted or did something with it. You can actually follow it. Right? Nothing else actually does that yet?

Jennie Wright [00:10:14]:

Well, funny that you brought that up because in my DMs in Instagram this keeps coming up and it’s these broadcast channels that they introduced in Instagram in February of 2023. I personally have never joined 1, but Instagram is touting it as a one to many. So you get a notification and it says and so wants you to join their broadcast channel. And if you join it, then the host of that broadcast channel can then send a message that goes to everybody in that channel to quote unquote deepen their community and get in touch with them. So that is kind of a bit of a method, don’t you think? But you have to opt in like you would on an opt in page.

Jason Wiehler [00:10:57]:

You’d have to opt in, but here’s a couple questions. That’s good. It’s really really good.

Jennie Wright [00:11:03]:

I just don’t think it’s taken off yet.

Jason Wiehler [00:11:05]:

Maybe it’s not taken off yet, but at the same time I would find it I would find it funny if people couldn’t mute it if they were able to create A nonresponse piece of data. In other words, yeah, you join somebody’s broadcast, and then you ignore it, and the person Doesn’t know really what happened. With an email, you know, if it went to a bad email address, You would get a a notification. You would get a bounce. Right?

Jennie Wright [00:11:39]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:11:39]:

If it was unopened, well, you know it’s definitely unopened. If it’s opened, you know it’s opened. If they click through something, you know. Right? On this, you don’t know.

Jennie Wright [00:11:50]:

I don’t know.

Jason Wiehler [00:11:51]:

And how are you gonna pair Google Analytics with that? You can’t.

Jennie Wright [00:11:55]:

I don’t know that either. I don’t know if there is a way. I don’t know I don’t know because I haven’t like I said, I haven’t joined one. But I don’t know if I created one and had people enter it if I’d be able to look at metrics. I wasn’t able to to see that. But if there were metrics, that would be cool.

Jason Wiehler [00:12:10]:

The other thing that kinda gets me is Considering Instagram’s ad model and revenue model, how would they make money on doing this?

Jennie Wright [00:12:20]:

I don’t know that either. That’s a really good question.

Jason Wiehler [00:12:23]:

So I guess it’s just a bit of a mystery. So for now, I’m gonna stay on the Not getting dethroned side of email marketing.

Jennie Wright [00:12:32]:

I also okay. So my my opinion on this is email marketing is never gonna get dethroned, I think, in our in the next 20 to 30 years because unless something like you said, unless something really drastically changes, it’s not it’s not gonna change. I think there will always be email this, and I think they will always be important.

Jason Wiehler [00:12:55]:

I think email marketing will get dethroned in a way. Mhmm. I think I can’t say that I can’t make a prediction that it’s gonna be okay in 10 years or 15 years. What I think is going to end up happening With all the problems with, fraud, identities or anonymous identities in social media and the way social media is becoming accessible sometimes on certain apps, I think that eventually people are gonna crack down and they’re gonna come up with One online identity.

Jennie Wright [00:13:29]:

They’ve been talking this but this is a conversation that has been happening, having, like, 1 online identity and it’s connected to everything. Exactly. It’s like 1 avatar.

Jason Wiehler [00:13:38]:

When that happens, that would be an opportunity for emails to be dethroned, but it’d only be a slightly different version of emails.

Jennie Wright [00:13:45]:

Do you know how hard it would be to get 1 avatar for your entire online presence

Jason Wiehler [00:13:50]:

over all of your platforms? It’s not a matter of you getting 1 avatar for 1 online. It doesn’t mean you have to The same name on Instagram and on Facebook No.

Jennie Wright [00:13:57]:

But everything being connected. Everybody would have to communicate

Jason Wiehler [00:14:00]:

being connected, but you could only register 1 profile on each Different app. And that’s it. Yeah. That’s And that would be it.

Jennie Wright [00:14:09]:

That’s a bridge too far, I think, for the platforms and also the people on that.

Jason Wiehler [00:14:13]:

I know. Because the platforms likes to have bots and a lot of these fake accounts, and it makes their stats look sky high. But, eventually, I think it’s gonna happen because, I mean, we’ve already got 1 app out there that has just turned to I don’t even know what I wanna call it. Right?

Jennie Wright [00:14:29]:

But Are you gonna name said app?

Jason Wiehler [00:14:32]:

Yeah. It used to be called Twitter, but now there’s an x where the bird died.

Jennie Wright [00:14:40]:

Oh my god. That’s so funny. Absolutely.

Jason Wiehler [00:14:42]:

That’s where it’s buried.

Jennie Wright [00:14:43]:

Yep. X marks the spot where Twitter died.

Jason Wiehler [00:14:46]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Jennie Wright [00:14:47]:

I I completely agree. I first of all, I stopped actually participating and posting or even reading anything on Twitter a while ago, but more so even recently, I I have no interest. So yeah I agree with you on that one. Is there anything that’s going to in your opinion overtake or create more opportunity with organic leads in the next like 12 months or so?

Jason Wiehler [00:15:19]:

Organic leads. Yeah. I I I can’t

Jennie Wright [00:15:21]:

Like, what do you think the top ways of will be to gain organic leads? Like, right now it’s social media posting with consistency, it’s things like lead magnets and webinars and master classes and summits and all that kind of stuff. Do you see a new or a different way?

Jason Wiehler [00:15:35]:

I don’t see the new ways. In spite of, like, ClickFunnels and other things coming out with thinking that, like, Their 2 point o or their new methods or whatever are going to help you with that. I don’t think, Fundamentally, on a technical level, there’s gonna be a better way. It’s gonna have to be a lot of personal, internal Effort. In other words, I think people have to now become more advanced in the way they represent themselves online. They have to be more strategic. I mean, there’s a lot of things that that help people gain organic leads online. And there’s a a finite amount of attention everybody can can give.

Jason Wiehler [00:16:21]:

Mhmm. Right? So you now have to be better gaining that attention. And so many people are sick of shock and awe stuff and sticky taglines and, You know, here, I fooled you in to open this email or, hey. Look at this post that’s shocking or whatever. You know? Everybody’s Clickbait. We’re we’re kind of past the viral stage, Right. When it comes to business to business or business to consumers, because people get annoyed with that stuff. Right? You’re you’re you’re stealing attention, and then you’re not giving value in return.

Jason Wiehler [00:16:54]:

And I think the people that are going to uplevel And give value in their posts and what they’re doing and be authentic without saying authentic. Right? Yep. That’s the kind of thing that’s gonna actually drive it up. And, of course, I’m gonna tell you being niched in. Because if you’re able to put yourself out there and represent yourself accurately, The people that need you the most, they’re going to find you because you are basically being a beacon for that specific thing that they need. You’re not being vague. Right?

Jennie Wright [00:17:23]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:17:24]:

If you’re doing all of those things, you’re gonna get more organic leads. For the people out there that wanna do, like, all the different cutting corners and be vague and And try and, get people under false pretenses or just get anybody. You know, that’s that stuff is It’s a waste of energy, first of all, but it’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna be as effective. So next year, I think what’s gonna end up happening is people who’ve got their stuff straight are gonna do so much better as the people that are trying all the bad methods are going to fall backwards. The win’s gonna be created out of other people’s losses.

Jennie Wright [00:18:04]:

Yes, so there’s this

Jason Wiehler [00:18:08]:

What do you think?

Jennie Wright [00:18:09]:

Well, I agree I agree with what you’re saying. And it’s a it’s a you’re looking at it sort of like in a philosophical sort of way, and I love that.

Jason Wiehler [00:18:17]:

Yeah. Because I’m that type of guy.

Jennie Wright [00:18:18]:

I know. And I’m I’m more like the nuts and bolts y kind of person when it comes to the strategy. Right?

Jason Wiehler [00:18:24]:

K.

Jennie Wright [00:18:24]:

So this is where it’s a good play because your philosophy, I think, is right. What I see sort of in the minutia happening is the consistent and constant refinement of things like the copywriting, this, this pendulum swing so, you know, just like when it was like, what was it? Clubhouse and all these different things that came on. There’s like always a pendulum swing where everybody joins the thing and everybody does the thing and then there’s a pendulum swing back to nobody does the thing and then the pendulum kinda like, you know, sort of finds middle ground. Right? So with AI, everybody’s like, everybody’s using AI, and everybody’s using it to write their copy and, you know, everybody’s getting the rocketship emoji in their copy, which drives me not to know it’s freaking chachyp t if you see that or or the, like, celebration symbol. And I think the pendulum pendulum swung really hard with Chatgbt and AI, and it’s now gonna start to swing a little bit further back. So I anticipate that we’re gonna be looking for improvements in copy, page conversion rates, SEO, I think, is gonna be massive. I don’t think anybody is taking advantage of it on mass to the level that they should, some people are getting wise, and I think that they really, really should focus, like, on the really small details. And then I think that, in terms of gaining organic leads, it’s still about community.

Jennie Wright [00:19:57]:

It’s about connection and community. Nobody’s opening those Instagram or LinkedIn messages that are like, hey. Wanna join my thing or register today for my webinar? Nobody’s doing

Jason Wiehler [00:20:07]:

What about production quality of video, your website, and events?

Jennie Wright [00:20:13]:

Video quality, you and I are gonna differ on this probably. Video quality, you can still get away with pretty, like, low tech video editing. Right, I really don’t think you have to do a ton. You don’t have to hire a pro I’m

Jason Wiehler [00:20:28]:

not talking about the editing side. I’m talking about

Jennie Wright [00:20:30]:

The content?

Jason Wiehler [00:20:30]:

Well, I’m talking about not just the content, but Forget the editing. Editing is taking what you have and cutting it up so it it sort of looks right on there. But I’m talking about, like, you know, Setting up the lights, the camera, your lighting. Oh. We’re gonna say how you present in the audio and everything.

Jennie Wright [00:20:47]:

All of that has to be awesome.

Jason Wiehler [00:20:48]:

Okay. Right. So

Jennie Wright [00:20:49]:

but it does yeah. But it does, like but it doesn’t have to be super expensive and and all those kinds of things. But yeah. It definitely has to be high quality. Like, even I know that I have to up my game with video.

Jason Wiehler [00:21:02]:

Websites have to be better, video has to be better.

Jennie Wright [00:21:05]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:21:06]:

Like event landing pages have to be better.

Jennie Wright [00:21:08]:

Oh, tons. Tons. I’m still seeing, I’m still seeing landing pages. I actually saw a landing page today that a client was like, this is the best landing page ever. And looking at the metrics, it is absolutely not a good landing page.

Jason Wiehler [00:21:21]:

So when you do an online event Mhmm. And somebody is a participant in that event. Mhmm. What is the difference in the outcome for an event that is Very well run and up leveled Mhmm. Compared to an event that is very poorly organized and poorly run and not up leveled.

Jennie Wright [00:21:39]:

That’s easy. So the difference could be and we’re gonna talk conversion rate for a second here like opt in rate. The lesser run, lesser organized page that isn’t converting great because they haven’t put the time, effort, and, you know, thought into it and the strategy is gonna convert between 25 and maybe 30%.

Jason Wiehler [00:21:58]:

But let’s say you have a 5 day event, The poorly run. How how fast do people, like, walk away if it’s poorly run, and and what is the difference between that one that’s well run?

Jennie Wright [00:22:10]:

People will walk away. Even if they signed up for it, people will walk away if they don’t feel like it’s a good event, if it’s not properly planned. In Day 1? Day 1, gone.

Jason Wiehler [00:22:19]:

Okay.

Jennie Wright [00:22:20]:

They might some people might give it a day 2, but then after that, it’s it’s a no go. Right. Well run event. You can get people probably right to the end. 5 days, I personally think is too long, so I would do a 3 day event with a 4th day as like a sales push, but, on a 3 or 4 day event, you can get people right to the end if you do it right.

Jason Wiehler [00:22:39]:

You mentioned something earlier about a pendulum swing.

Jennie Wright [00:22:42]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:22:43]:

I have a I have a theory about the pendulum swing, which is the pendulum swing is people chasing the new back and forth, what they think will work because they will do if the pendulum swings over to the one side and they do whatever that is on the one side, And it doesn’t work out well for them when the pendulum starts to move. They start to change chase the pendulum

Jennie Wright [00:23:06]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:23:06]:

To do whatever is next, whether that is Using AI or whether it’s some other marketing tactic or strategy.

Jennie Wright [00:23:13]:

Or a new platform.

Jason Wiehler [00:23:14]:

However, there are people when the pendulum gets to a certain point On one side or the other, anywhere in between, where they come across a strategy that they nail and they do very, very well, And they do not carry on following the pendulum.

Jennie Wright [00:23:29]:

Correct.

Jason Wiehler [00:23:29]:

Those people stay there and do that. And I’ve always believed that there are, like, hundreds of marketing strategies out there, But if you know how to do some of them well, you stick with what you know, and you you basically nail it. Right? You don’t go, oh, well, I’m good at this, but this is the new shiny thing, so I’m gonna go after that. Right? If you’re good at list building, you do that. Right? If you’re good at at growing your organics, through social media, great. Or During on a specific app, what’s the point of going, oh, well, I think maybe, I think Pinterest is dying, so I’m gonna vacate Pinterest. Even though I had some success, I’m gonna go after the next step. No.

Jason Wiehler [00:24:11]:

If you’re good at it, you stay there. Mhmm. Right? You own it, and you rule it.

Jennie Wright [00:24:16]:

Absolutely. I I I’m not an early adopter. I’m so not an early adopter. Like, I didn’t even jump on Clubhouse until, like, 3 months or no. 2 months after it started. Whatever. I didn’t jump on threads. I still have never been do you even go on threads anymore?

Jason Wiehler [00:24:32]:

I do. Really?

Jennie Wright [00:24:33]:

Yes. Wow. Daily?

Jason Wiehler [00:24:36]:

I wouldn’t say daily.

Jennie Wright [00:24:37]:

When it came out, were you on it daily?

Jason Wiehler [00:24:39]:

No. I would say I’m I look at it every couple days.

Jennie Wright [00:24:42]:

I haven’t even looked at it.

Jason Wiehler [00:24:44]:

Yeah. I was looking at what everybody else is doing. But here’s the thing. I think It’s quite possible that with thread threads coming out, there was another one called Post News and with x marks the spot dead bird. But those 3 things, they’re all very, very similar.

Jennie Wright [00:25:04]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:25:06]:

Well, it’s muddied the water now.

Jennie Wright [00:25:07]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:25:08]:

Like, do are we even really interested in that method anymore? Are we are we interested in that medium? Okay. Here’s the novelty. It’s 240 characters. Type in whatever’s on your mind. Is that what that’s what we want?

Jennie Wright [00:25:22]:

No. I mean, in my space, it’s not effective marketing. But in other spaces, it’s what people you know, it it a lot of people used what did you call it? Twitter dead x, the bird?

Jason Wiehler [00:25:33]:

X marks the spot dead bird. I don’t know.

Jennie Wright [00:25:35]:

X marks the x marks the spot dead bird. A lot of people use it to they used to use it get their news, they used to get it to use it to get, like, bulletin updates on things that were happening. I used to use it to find out if, you know, if I heard sirens outside the window, if, like, there was something going on. Right? You could because you could check police and stuff. But

Jason Wiehler [00:25:55]:

I will not check the news on Twitter. No. And the simple fact is is that I’ve I’ve got an iPhone, so I would definitely just, like, check news cycle that I have, Apple News, I can get various different, you know, news reports from all over the place, not just from 1 channel, from multiple channels.

Jennie Wright [00:26:13]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:26:13]:

Okay. You can also get some news on Instagram or through Facebook if you really wanted to, but I stick with that. I could not stand anymore getting news off of Twitter Because what comes along with that news is about 500 people who have an opinion on it that know nothing about what’s going on. So even as something as simple as, oh, big car accident at the 401 in Don Valley Parkway, And the comments below will be, like like, what first of all, why does there need to be any commentary on it? And second of all, it’s like, oh, it’s probably some idiot doing such and such, Or, oh, look at the car that’s in there. It’s some douche that was doing this or that. Right? It’s like

Jennie Wright [00:26:53]:

And then there’s always a commentary

Jason Wiehler [00:26:55]:

You wanna get the news.

Jennie Wright [00:26:56]:

Things. Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:26:56]:

You wanna get the news, But you don’t wanna get everybody else’s opinion on the news.

Jennie Wright [00:27:00]:

Do you know where I get some news? Where? You’re not gonna like it. Go ahead. It’s TikTok.

Jason Wiehler [00:27:06]:

I I will not touch it. I know. I’m not going near it.

Jennie Wright [00:27:09]:

I know. I know. There’s several accounts. Some of them, like, you know, really, well trusted news sources

Jason Wiehler [00:27:20]:

Okay.

Jennie Wright [00:27:21]:

Where you can get some of that. But that’s I mean, like, we’re going off topic talking about news.

Jason Wiehler [00:27:24]:

Yep.

Jennie Wright [00:27:25]:

But, I want I actually did wanna bring up TikTok for a certain reason, and that was whether or not it’s a good tool to use for, like, b two b?

Jason Wiehler [00:27:37]:

Well, I’m gonna say no because I won’t even touch it. And I’m not, And it’s not because of the reason I won’t touch it. Mhmm. Right? I mean, right now, you’ve got a lot of people talking about whether it is safe to use. Yes. Right. And I would tend to say if there’s a debate or an argument about that, then maybe it’s best to stay away from it as far as, like, Your kids are sort of falling into the, you know, constant scrolling or so algorithm working working on you Sure. A bit.

Jason Wiehler [00:28:11]:

But as far as I’m concerned, I don’t Personally, from my own business, I don’t see a value in doing anything on TikTok that is gonna find me the people that I need or wanna connect with. And to be perfectly honest, if I was advising a client, it’s not that I would tell them to stay away from TikTok. I would tell them to use any medium where they feel most comfortable because that’s where they’re going to, for lack of a better word, Do something authentic. Right? If they’re if they’re totally happy doing videos on YouTube and they can be their most authentic there, do that.

Jennie Wright [00:28:49]:

And I’m gonna disagree with you for only one reason and that is you shouldn’t be on the apps that make you feel comfortable. You need to be on the apps where your ideal client is already consuming their content?

Jason Wiehler [00:29:00]:

Well, I believe my ideal client’s on LinkedIn.

Jennie Wright [00:29:03]:

Sure. But my ideal client is, like, if I love being on Pinterest because I love to scroll Pinterest, right, or put up whatever, but my ideal client isn’t there, which I’ve identified through trial and error, they aren’t there. I even though I’m comfortable, I should not be posting there. I should be posting where my clients are, my potential clients, my potential customers.

Jason Wiehler [00:29:25]:

And you think your clients are on TikTok?

Jennie Wright [00:29:28]:

Not me personally. Oh. Not me personally. I know where mine are. They’re Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Jason Wiehler [00:29:34]:

Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:29:34]:

But I I I worked with a person who their ideal client is on TikTok.

Jason Wiehler [00:29:39]:

Right. I get I get that part.

Jennie Wright [00:29:41]:

Right. So

Jason Wiehler [00:29:42]:

But I wouldn’t say that I wouldn’t say that

Jennie Wright [00:29:44]:

But the question was, do you think it’s do you think it’s useful for b two b? So take

Jason Wiehler [00:29:48]:

b two b, no.

Jennie Wright [00:29:49]:

No? No. Okay. B to c.

Jason Wiehler [00:29:52]:

B to c, some. Okay.

Jennie Wright [00:29:55]:

I mean,

Jason Wiehler [00:29:55]:

if that’s That’s good enough. If you’re pushing product For a specific demographic that is actually on TikTok, then, yeah, I get it. Mhmm. But are you really gonna be pushing product that’s maybe meant for anybody over 50 On TikTok?

Jennie Wright [00:30:09]:

Oh my gosh. There’s a huge audience for that. There is a huge

Jason Wiehler [00:30:11]:

think there’s a huge audience of people over 50 on TikTok? Absolutely. I disagree.

Jennie Wright [00:30:16]:

Absolutely I’d

Jason Wiehler [00:30:17]:

love for you to prove that one.

Jennie Wright [00:30:19]:

Well, the majority of people not the majority of people are. They’re obviously between like 2050 or, you know, that or 30 and 50 or something like that. I don’t have the metrics in front of me and I don’t know them by heart. But there is a massive swath of people that are in that age range and then there are people in the other space in there.

Jason Wiehler [00:30:36]:

Okay. So there’s 2 things here. I honestly believe that the percentage of people over 50 that are on TikTok is extremely low compared to everybody between 16 and 25. Number 2, I believe the people that are over 50 that are on there Probably still would be a much lower percentage of actually doing a purchase or transaction through a social media app.

Jennie Wright [00:31:00]:

You know you know I’m fact checking you right now.

Jason Wiehler [00:31:02]:

You can fact check all you like.

Jennie Wright [00:31:04]:

Because you’re not on the app.

Jason Wiehler [00:31:05]:

This podcast can go on for 3 hours while you do that.

Jennie Wright [00:31:07]:

Okay. So fine. So a large majority of TikTokers are between the ages of 18 and 34, specifically 70% Oh. Are adult users or nearly 3 out of every four.

Jason Wiehler [00:31:19]:

Adult users does not mean over 50.

Jennie Wright [00:31:22]:

Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. Those stats are from October, by the way.

Jason Wiehler [00:31:25]:

Okay. 70%. Yeah. I mean, from the age of 34 to 50, that other 30%, that could be a large swath of that 30%. I’d be I’d be surprised if 10% is over 50.

Jennie Wright [00:31:37]:

Well my demographic isn’t people over 60 so I’m cool. That’s fine with me. Okay. So we we actually talked about this a little bit before, and this has to I mean, we have to talk about this in terms of platforms. Right? And and I’m I wanna talk about SaaS platforms because with inflation, I’m seeing this insane price raising happening across all SaaS platforms. Right? And and and, I mean, it’s not necessarily insane. At the time that we’re doing this, it’s Black Friday Cyber Monday stuff happening and that’s fine. You can get discounts all over the place.

Jennie Wright [00:32:13]:

But the services that you use the most your most, your ESP, your email marketing, your landing page platforms, the platforms that you use to post your social media and things like that, incrementally, in 2023, I saw a I don’t know. How much were percentage? I can’t even tell you, but I did see an increase in the cost of everything in terms of SaaS platforms.

Jason Wiehler [00:32:38]:

That’s really impressive considering, like, How much did the average wage go up in the US?

Jennie Wright [00:32:43]:

I don’t think it did.

Jason Wiehler [00:32:44]:

Oh, really? And how many layoffs were in the tech sector?

Jennie Wright [00:32:47]:

A lot?

Jason Wiehler [00:32:48]:

Yeah. It’s Strange, isn’t it? Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:32:49]:

I know. It’s so poorly.

Jason Wiehler [00:32:50]:

How their expenses went down, but yet the cost of everything went up. I wonder where that money is going to.

Jennie Wright [00:32:56]:

Well, definitely the CEOs and the c suite, obviously.

Jason Wiehler [00:32:59]:

Shares of the webinar.

Jennie Wright [00:33:01]:

Or yeah. Absolutely.

Jason Wiehler [00:33:02]:

There’s too many companies, and If I can vote for this. In Ontario or even in Canada, specifically, and it’s probably North America, where You come out of COVID, and there’s been this whole supply chain issue, and, obviously, that caused price increases, and then all of a sudden it gets labeled as inflation, and I wanna know how this is actually possible that groceries can go up so high.

Jennie Wright [00:33:33]:

Oh, it’s a load of crap.

Jason Wiehler [00:33:34]:

Right. But nobody’s, you know the average person isn’t getting paid that much more.

Jennie Wright [00:33:40]:

No, actually, the the amount of take home pay that people are getting is actually less.

Jason Wiehler [00:33:45]:

Okay. So you got these SaaS companies that, Like, in tech, the amount of dollars that they can make per 1 individual is outrageous. Mhmm. Okay? If you look at, like, a company like Facebook or anything, They laid off so many people. So the amount of dollars revenue they bring in per person has gone way up. There is no reason for other companies in the tech sector that have Somewhat loosened or, like, softened or lowered the amount of people they have on board. Right? And then say, well, inflation, that’s gotta go up. It’s not a commodity.

Jason Wiehler [00:34:16]:

It’s not a commodity?

Jennie Wright [00:34:16]:

No. It’s not a commodity. It’s an excuse. You know? It’s an excuse to to pull out or pull more water out of the stone kind of thing. It’s an excuse to squeeze.

Jason Wiehler [00:34:24]:

And the sad part is is if all of them do it, then you don’t have a choice.

Jennie Wright [00:34:29]:

Agreed.

Jason Wiehler [00:34:30]:

Right? So one I saw that I found interesting was Elementor. Now I’m glad that they have a sale because I like Elementor for building websites. Mhmm. I think it’s a great product because you can do a ton on Elementor Pro.

Jennie Wright [00:34:42]:

I’ve put some landing pages on it too. Not bad.

Jason Wiehler [00:34:45]:

So Elementor Pro is 50% off. Okay. How can they afford to offer it at 50% off?

Jennie Wright [00:34:53]:

Volume.

Jason Wiehler [00:34:54]:

Well, sure, volume. But sometimes you have to look at these sales and say, what is the true price that they can afford to

Jennie Wright [00:35:02]:

sell them? For 1 year. Right?

Jason Wiehler [00:35:03]:

It’s just It’s only for 1 year, but Right. What are they gonna do next year?

Jennie Wright [00:35:06]:

The price goes back to the original price. It’s right there

Jason Wiehler [00:35:09]:

on the What I’m saying is what are they gonna do when it comes around to Black Friday next year? 50% off again. I mean, if you get in the renewal cycle every year around this time, hey. Guess what?

Jennie Wright [00:35:20]:

But this but and you and I have talked you and I have had some experience with this, but you know what people are doing? Is they’re offering, hey, like I just had this happen on my active campaign account we’re, I’m up for renewal. And ActiveCampaign said, hey. If you go from this plan to this plan and you do it yearly you’ll get this much savings and stuff like that. They’re trying to encourage you at an earlier time to pay your yearly fee and you will get x bonus or so on and so forth. Here’s a trick by the way, because I just can’t I just had to close a client’s active campaign account. When I went to close it, they said we’ll give you 50% off for 3 months. I was like, oh, okay. And then when I said no, I really wanna close it, they’re like, oh, well, you can do this, this, and this, and, I mean, the offers.

Jennie Wright [00:36:10]:

I didn’t even know they existed, but there were some offers. Anyways

Jason Wiehler [00:36:13]:

not even that’s not even customer acquisition cost.

Jennie Wright [00:36:15]:

No. It’s not.

Jason Wiehler [00:36:16]:

That is the ability to they can actually reduce their price that much and it would still be profitable for them. Mhmm. That’s how you know things are too inflated.

Jennie Wright [00:36:25]:

Yeah. Well, when another example is when I had click funnels the because I had the classic click funnels and now they have 2 point o. Well, I thought when I had classic click funnels and they and they brought out 2.0 that I would get access to it. Maybe for a couple extra bucks? But I thought I was gonna get access no. I didn’t get access to anything. I’d have to, like, upgrade like choose a different account and everything and I was shocked at the price. So no. Couldn’t do it.

Jennie Wright [00:36:55]:

It it was too much. But inflation is ridiculous. I do think because the cost of living has gone up substantial substantially across the board that certain people do need to raise their prices for certain things, but in terms of SaaS platforms, I’m I I think there’s some gouging Going on.

Jason Wiehler [00:37:12]:

Yeah. They also need to pay their people more so they can afford the price increases of everything.

Jennie Wright [00:37:16]:

No kidding. It but if yeah. Like you said, if 1 person does it, then everybody’s doing it, and then it’s pandemic like it’s wide. Everybody’s doing it, which is kind of crazy and I think that’s kind of nuts. When it comes to the messaging that we’re talking about in terms of, like, I don’t know, general marketing. Right? So we’ve talked about a couple of cons like specific things, but in general marketing, right, what do you think is going to persist and be consistent that you just you just have to do. You you can’t go without.

Jason Wiehler [00:37:53]:

I’m not sure exactly what you mean.

Jennie Wright [00:37:55]:

Well, you know

Jason Wiehler [00:37:57]:

What are the things that you have to persistently do?

Jennie Wright [00:38:00]:

Yeah, yeah, like, you really persistently have to continue doing.

Jason Wiehler [00:38:04]:

In your messaging?

Jennie Wright [00:38:05]:

Yes. Sorry. I I didn’t explain it well.

Jason Wiehler [00:38:08]:

In your messaging? Oh my god. You have to you have to be consistent, obviously. Right? And People have to be patient. Like

Jennie Wright [00:38:22]:

Really? Who has patience these days for anything?

Jason Wiehler [00:38:24]:

No. I mean, On the consumer side, they don’t have as much patience. But if you’re actually the person that’s going to be producing content and everything like that, You have to be persistent in your messaging, like, the actual thing that you’re talking about.

Jennie Wright [00:38:38]:

So sticking to it, you mean?

Jason Wiehler [00:38:39]:

Sticking to it. Okay. Right? But you have to It’s it’s sort of like like walking the line. Your messaging has to be correct. You should be doing it on the same medium. The only thing that should vary to a range is how you like, how you’re presenting it. You’re presenting it in different ways, you’re coming up with different ways of wording things.

Jennie Wright [00:39:03]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:39:04]:

But you shouldn’t, like, jump ship from one thing to another or, You know, be all over the map. Right? Because as soon as you jump from 1 medium to another, you can lose people. Because Where once there was an audience that was expecting you to do something, now your focus has switched somewhere else so that audience now suffers and you’ve gone off to try and obtain a new audience somewhere else.

Jennie Wright [00:39:26]:

Are you gonna succeed like that?

Jason Wiehler [00:39:27]:

You’re not because you’re just gonna kill you’re gonna kill people’s observation of you. It’s just like if you have an email list And that’s your thing, and all of a sudden you decide that you’re not gonna communicate with that list, eventually, people are gonna get used to the idea that you’re not emailing them. And then when you finally do, They’re gonna be like, well, why all of a sudden are you emailing me?

Jennie Wright [00:39:47]:

Or even worse, who the hell are you?

Jason Wiehler [00:39:49]:

Who are you? I don’t know who you are.

Jennie Wright [00:39:51]:

Don’t know you at all.

Jason Wiehler [00:39:52]:

I think I’m gonna press this complaint button. I I had no right to be on this list. Meanwhile, they did sign up for something Yeah. 3 years ago when you actually wanted to email.

Jennie Wright [00:40:00]:

Totally. Yep. I completely agree. Yep. But, another thing about that with the consistency side of thing is I I heard somebody speak a couple months ago, and one of the things that she said was before you consider changing anything, changing the platform that you’re spending your most time on or the way that you’re, you know, connecting with your audience or anything like that, commit to 90 days. Yeah. Commit to 90 days Yeah. And then see and evaluate.

Jason Wiehler [00:40:33]:

Yeah. Commit to 90 days almost every single day. Yeah. Not 90 days, like, once a week.

Jennie Wright [00:40:39]:

Oh, no. But, I mean so as an example right? So if you if you think that you’re going to email your list here’s an if you email your list once a week, okay, and, you forgot to do it for a very long time.

Jason Wiehler [00:40:58]:

Yeah. That’s gonna cause a problem.

Jennie Wright [00:41:00]:

Very long time. Right? So it’s gonna cause a problem, and then you decide, oh, I’m gonna start emailing them again. But you know what? I emailed them once, and I got no response. So Jason, yeah, I was consistent, I stopped being consistent, then I emailed them once. Nobody opened my email, email sucks. Well, you didn’t put enough time into it. Right? So this is where an example where 90 days would be good, 90 days of a weekly email Absolutely. Will create change.

Jason Wiehler [00:41:25]:

Well that’s about 13 emails.

Jennie Wright [00:41:27]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:41:28]:

Good. I’m Just do

Jennie Wright [00:41:30]:

that math fast.

Jason Wiehler [00:41:31]:

Yeah. That’s how I am. Anyways, I I don’t know. For emails, I would probably go 6 months, The 26 weeks or something like that because I feel like you gotta do things 21 times before people catch up. But when you’re talking about Consistently, then there’s the message itself. Like, for instance, my message my message persistently will be That niching in or not being niched in I feel niching in is a necessity, and I also believe That niche is in people’s blind spots. They don’t understand the impact of being niched in. So they don’t understand that this problem is existing, and it’s in their blind spot.

Jason Wiehler [00:42:13]:

They attribute it to a lot of other things. So my My personal message, my actual message is persistently that. Right? Aside from all the The effort of being consistent and doing it.

Jennie Wright [00:42:25]:

You’re taking my answer.

Jason Wiehler [00:42:27]:

What do you mean I’m taking your answer?

Jennie Wright [00:42:28]:

Because I was gonna say What’s your answer? Consistency.

Jason Wiehler [00:42:30]:

Well, I know it’s consistency, but what’s your message? When you’re being consistent, what are you what’s your message? What are you gonna persistently tell tell people about your business?

Jennie Wright [00:42:43]:

I’m going to consistently teach and create space for people to connect. And I just made that up on the spot, but I’m gonna but that’s that’s the best weeks. At my core, I know that I’m like a teacher. Right? I I like to teach people. I like to show people how to do something and then watch them be able to do it and excel. At least that’s kinda how it feels. Maybe I’m not a great teacher, but I’d like to do that. Maybe it sounds a little heavy handed sometimes when I do it, but I do enjoy showing people how to do something.

Jason Wiehler [00:43:22]:

Sure.

Jennie Wright [00:43:23]:

So that’s that’s kind of my message. Did you participate in any events in 2023 that you really loved, that you could see yourself participating again in in, like, 2024, or can you anticipate the kind of events that you want to be part of in 2024?

Jason Wiehler [00:43:47]:

Did I participate in any? I can’t say that I participated full on in an online event entirely, But there were online events that caught my eye.

Jennie Wright [00:44:01]:

Such as?

Jason Wiehler [00:44:04]:

There were some things that Scott Galloway was Involved with. Mhmm. And there’s various people that are in, like, the marketing side of things when some of the big hitters, The events that they were involved with, obviously, they’re very careful of what events they get involved with Mhmm. And they’re choosy. And The accessibility to those events, they’re no joke. Like, I mean, some of them, you do have to actually purchase to be involved. But The thing is is that there was so much value being offered on the other end that it just seemed worth it. Like, if you wanted to see, like, a keynote by some of the a group of individuals that were were, Like, as a panel, grouped together that were really, really strong

Jennie Wright [00:44:50]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:44:51]:

Really good speakers that had large audiences that brought value, It was worth it to spend invest your time and your money to go see it.

Jennie Wright [00:45:01]:

Okay.

Jason Wiehler [00:45:01]:

Right? Even though it was an online event. I still think, like, having the right people in a summit or in a panel or in a series It’s still a good way to go because, you know, it’s efficient. People can do it from home. Right? And if you have the technology and you have somebody in this room that’s organized, Which I know you are, but I’m not I’m not setting you up. I’m not setting you up because you didn’t do any of the events that I actually I got involved with because The events that you do are are completely different genre than what

Jennie Wright [00:45:34]:

Your interests are.

Jason Wiehler [00:45:35]:

Than what I need to see. Right? But I think some of them were so well done, and they just had so much value. You could perceive the value before you even before you even went in it. And then, obviously, once you got Drew, when you registered and you participated, everything just worked seamlessly.

Jennie Wright [00:45:52]:

I have a question for you. What? You just said you could see the value, the perceived value, just by looking at it. Why?

Jason Wiehler [00:46:03]:

Because you knew who the people were. Right? They clearly they clearly like, they For lack of again, I’m gonna push the niche thing. There was 5 individuals in an event, and all those individuals were niched in. It all made sense for them to be speaking at this one event. And it was worth the price to actually pay to actually see all those people online Do their keynote. In that one specific event, on that one specific topic

Jennie Wright [00:46:30]:

But what looking at it, what made you see it? Was it the name of the person and the title underneath of what they were gonna talk about, was it the name of the event? Was it the way the graphic looked? Was it the copy?

Jason Wiehler [00:46:42]:

Yep. Okay. For me, I follow specific people.

Jennie Wright [00:46:45]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:46:46]:

Like, I will follow Scott Galloway, Seth Godin, Ron Tite.

Jennie Wright [00:46:50]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:46:50]:

Okay. When I see those people, that obviously captures my attention.

Jennie Wright [00:46:56]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:46:58]:

The second thing is is Some of them are very multitalented, so it depends on what they’re speaking on. Mhmm. Like, if they’re they’re speaking at a real estate symposium, I’m not really going to be involved in that one. But if they’re talking about certain aspects of marketing that I’m involved with

Jennie Wright [00:47:13]:

The podcast network.

Jason Wiehler [00:47:14]:

So I think it’s it’s interchangeable. There’s There’s a niche component into the subject matter, and then there’s a niche component into the individuals.

Jennie Wright [00:47:23]:

Okay. Right? But let’s just say you saw something of people you do not follow. So it’s not Scott Galloway or Seth Godin or who’s oh, wrong type.

Jason Wiehler [00:47:33]:

By default, it’s the actual subject matter.

Jennie Wright [00:47:35]:

Okay. Fair enough. Right. I was just curious because I wanna know what made you

Jason Wiehler [00:47:38]:

And for me.

Jennie Wright [00:47:39]:

Like, pulled you in.

Jason Wiehler [00:47:40]:

If I see it, okay, I’m gonna see these things show up on LinkedIn or Instagram because that’s where I’m probably gonna be looking. So if it’s stand out, if it’s The production value of the ad

Jennie Wright [00:47:52]:

Oh, there you go.

Jason Wiehler [00:47:53]:

Right, is there, and they can articulate it really, really quick, and visually I can see it. I’m going to inquire further. That’s just the way it happens. Mhmm. I’m gonna actually, like, okay. Now I’m gonna look at the whole thing. Mhmm. I’m gonna read, oh, the link is here.

Jason Wiehler [00:48:06]:

Okay. I’m gonna go check out that page. Lo and behold, I go to the page, and the page has everything I need to know about that event to make a decision.

Jennie Wright [00:48:14]:

Mhmm. Oh, and there’s a system to that. You know?

Jason Wiehler [00:48:17]:

Right now, of course, there’s a system to that. But but if they’ve got it right, and they’re niched in, and they’re organized, and they have everything and it’s seamless, It just makes it frictionless. You just, hey, this this is for me. No. This is where I’m gonna go.

Jennie Wright [00:48:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. Frictionless is great. I take it a step actually, not a step further than you. I take it, I guess, just out of volume differently than you because of just what I do, I have, I have an email address that isn’t public. Nobody knows about it. And I sign up to a bunch of events that aren’t even in my niche all the time because they could potentially be in my client’s niche and then I look at and I dissect everything from the ad to the copy to the landing page and everything on it and all the different components to the email series that you get after you register and all the opportunities within and even the event. And I start to break all of those down and I start looking for components that are either elevating the techniques that I’m currently using or wanna use prove myself or even my clients or things that are not working, and I identify each one of these things.

Jennie Wright [00:49:29]:

It’s it’s like a it’s a continuous learning process. But

Jason Wiehler [00:49:32]:

that’s your thing. Total That’s your specialty. So, yeah, I I totally get why you would do that.

Jennie Wright [00:49:37]:

Absolutely. And and in in 2023, what worked was, was a couple of things. First of all, people still don’t wanna leave their homes and travel too far for conferences although I saw that change a lot in q3 and q4. So a lot more people were starting to go to like in person conferences in 20 Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:49:55]:

But they’re dependent on where they were too. 100%.

Jennie Wright [00:49:59]:

100% but in 20 I I anticipate that in 2024 in person conferences are gonna continue to see more people unless we have something that pulls people back but there’s a huge swath of people that love and adore online events because they do not have to get on a plane and go anywhere so what we’re seeing with in person events is a hybrid. A lot of in person events and I’m working with a client in Maine who does a massive yearly event and they added in in 2022 and 2023 they added in an online portion and they saw a huge amount of sales there. Right? So and that’s gonna continue. Even though everybody could come and be in person in Maine and be part of this conference, they’re gonna continue to do this online component because it 1, it opens up the gates to people who don’t wanna travel, won’t travel, can’t travel, whatever, but also don’t wanna you know, they they just wanna watch everything.

Jason Wiehler [00:50:55]:

It’s great. But I totally get that. And I think if I was to put a word to it, I’d call it, like, the raving fan theory. So you have these all year round, you can do these online events and everything like that, and and you can capture attention, you can retain attention, But there are in the large quantity of people that would probably be involved in your online event, there are probably several 100, Maybe 1,000 that are raving fans. Those people are gonna show up to the live event. Those people actually wanna wanna see you face to face. They wanna actually be there When you got up on stage to actually talk or be in an event that you’re orchestrating alive, so I think it’s the raving fans that show up to those things. Even though there’s fewer of them, they’re still very popular.

Jennie Wright [00:51:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree. And, you know, I’m I’m I get the pleasure of speaking at an in person event in the beginning of 2024, and I’m hoping some raving fans will show up there as well.

Jason Wiehler [00:51:51]:

But I I’d have to say I don’t see as many people organizing Just events that are stand alone. There’s some there’s, like, some mainstays. Like

Jennie Wright [00:52:01]:

Oh, okay.

Jason Wiehler [00:52:01]:

Like, the ones that are like, what are the ones that are in In the tech industry, like, is it devoted or There’s Podfest. By Southwest.

Jennie Wright [00:52:09]:

Yeah. South West.

Jason Wiehler [00:52:11]:

There’s Okay. Those those ones are annual. Right? That’s a thing. That’s a pilgrimage, practically. Quickly.

Jennie Wright [00:52:15]:

Yeah. Like yeah. Podcast is a pilgrimage.

Jason Wiehler [00:52:17]:

But I think I think the in person events are basically, like, corporate run most of the time. It’s like, okay. We’re gonna have this group of people show up in this industry or all the people in our company show up to this one event, one of these speakers here. Yes. Yes. It’s not really outside sales or anything like that. Like, is Tony Robbins doing as many live events now as he was before?

Jennie Wright [00:52:39]:

I don’t know.

Jason Wiehler [00:52:40]:

Think so.

Jennie Wright [00:52:40]:

I don’t know. But I will tell you what is happening within those events that has changed a lot. They are way more complex. So the the degrees, like whereas we would have, like, in person and online and stuff, now the degrees of, how many VIP or all access passes have increased

Jason Wiehler [00:52:58]:

Multilevel.

Jennie Wright [00:52:59]:

Multi yep. There’s so many bump offers, upsells, downsells, they’re all over the place. It is Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [00:53:04]:

They’re not just trying to sell 1 1 item at the end.

Jennie Wright [00:53:06]:

They’re Absolutely not.

Jason Wiehler [00:53:07]:

They’re selling the whole time.

Jennie Wright [00:53:08]:

I’ve been talking about this for years and maybe people caught on, But I’m kidding. But that you have to find people where they are and you have to find this thing that they want at the moment that they need it. And I always said that this was like filling all the holes and closing all the gaps. Right? And I you do that by making sure that people don’t leak. People leak out of your events if they don’t see something that they want. Right? So even they registered for your summit for free, if they don’t see something on the on the welcome page or the Facebook group or the welcome email that catches them and keeps them, the route. So you have to do stuff that’s like, hey. We’re gonna have a, you know, online q and a the night before we start or we’re gonna have a keynote speech at 7 o’clock in the morning or whatever something that somebody wants and if you’re niched in you know your audience have to know what that is and you include it in your event so now how we have like all these different multiple layers and not just the straight out register for a 3 day event, you get some videos, blah blah blah, and you’re done.

Jennie Wright [00:54:11]:

Like, we’re the the events that I’m crafting need multiple spreadsheets at this point Right. Because they’re that complex.

Jason Wiehler [00:54:20]:

Well, makes your job easier.

Jennie Wright [00:54:22]:

It makes it more fun. I I mean I love well I mean for me but I love having like 12 tabs on spreadsheet and Sure. But that’s just me. One thing that is absolutely huge right now, and I saw this happening with people like Amy Porterfield, is collaborations. There’s a lot of, affiliate marketing and collaboration marketing happening with partners where instead of just running an event by yourself and I mean, we can harp in this back to, like, the Marie Forleo b school thing, which has been going on for, like, a decade, that you’re better off in groups and you’re stronger with your, you know, people that are in your space and, that can help you sell more, but there is a downside. Right?

Jason Wiehler [00:55:10]:

Yeah. For sure, there’s a downside.

Jennie Wright [00:55:12]:

There’s lots of doubts.

Jason Wiehler [00:55:13]:

Because there’s too many there’s too many variables. Well, not too many variables. Actually, there’s variables, but They’re serious ones.

Jennie Wright [00:55:23]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [00:55:24]:

So, yes, you wanna co you you wanna collab with people that are in your niche. Mhmm. Right? Because if you’re gonna sail, you want all your ships pointing the same direction. Mhmm. But that’s not just all in it because you’re dealing with you’re dealing with people. So as you bring that into the equation, who are you dealing with? That becomes a variable. Mhmm. Right? So Even though you might press people to do collaborative things, and there are people that arrange events, or the mid might arrange summits, and they it’s sort of collaborative.

Jason Wiehler [00:55:55]:

Right? Mhmm. It is always best for people to know who they are with. Sorry. That’s like a godfather quote.

Jennie Wright [00:56:04]:

Right.

Jason Wiehler [00:56:05]:

I didn’t know who I was with. Right? But you have to know who’s with. Like, you’re gonna collab with somebody and maybe Partner up to do something. Right? You really have to know that person well to know that they’re gonna that they are capable of holding up their end of the line, that they are looking at this thing the same way as you. Right? Yeah. The niche thing is great, but there’s so much stuff tacked on top of that. And then there’s the people that create events, And they wait until they decide to do an event to start finding speakers.

Jennie Wright [00:56:36]:

That’s the wrong time.

Jason Wiehler [00:56:37]:

Honestly, If you’re thinking about doing events, you should have a list of people that are good to go already. And if you can’t do that, Then your due diligence has to be really, really good.

Jennie Wright [00:56:51]:

Yeah. I don’t see anybody, unless they have a spreadsheet frenzy like I do, having that list of people, but what I will say is that people can do the due diligence.

Jason Wiehler [00:57:01]:

Yes. They can do the due diligence. They can do it. It has to be very, very serious.

Jennie Wright [00:57:05]:

Completely.

Jason Wiehler [00:57:06]:

Like, it can’t be a joke. It can’t be like, oh, I really like that person.

Jennie Wright [00:57:10]:

Well, it gets even worse than that sometimes where it’s like person a is gonna host their very 1st summit and they decided that their best friend who’s not even in the same business can be on their summit and be a speaker.

Jason Wiehler [00:57:23]:

Well, because it’s gonna make up the 24 speakers they they they need.

Jennie Wright [00:57:27]:

Ugh.

Jason Wiehler [00:57:27]:

I have to have 24 speakers. Oh, well, let’s Throw some filler in there. It’s not gonna make sense. But

Jennie Wright [00:57:33]:

Nobody on your nobody in your event should be filler at all. And if you have that, it it I mean, you’re you’re tempting fate in terms of disaster.

Jason Wiehler [00:57:41]:

Okay. So here’s the thing. Here’s the question. Would you rather A person build their speakers or the people that they know can be involved in event over time so that they’re ready and good to go, Or would you rather a person chase after new speakers when they’re ready to do an event?

Jennie Wright [00:58:03]:

You should be you should be courting and and and creating community with your potential speakers

Jason Wiehler [00:58:09]:

All the time.

Jennie Wright [00:58:10]:

All the time.

Jason Wiehler [00:58:10]:

Yeah.

Jennie Wright [00:58:11]:

Yeah. Like, don’t don’t go and open a spreadsheet into it. Start being like, hey. You know what? I think this person is really cool. And the reason is is that and this happens a lot in collaborations, in relationships, in business, personal life. Somebody looked really, really cool on the inside. Everything looks pristine, but as soon as you start getting to know somebody, you start seeing the real thing. Right? And if you’re gonna do a summit with a bunch of speakers, you’re gonna be working with them or their assistants or their business or whatever it is for a considerable amount of time.

Jennie Wright [00:58:41]:

You guys have to everything has to align. Like you said, all your shifts need to be pointed in the right direction, and the only way to know that is to go deeper than looking at their website and their Facebook account.

Jason Wiehler [00:58:52]:

No. You do need you need to follow them on social media. You need to be on their email list so you know exactly what they’re outputting.

Jennie Wright [00:58:59]:

Yes, and then you gotta go go another step deeper, and you gotta get on a call with them.

Jason Wiehler [00:59:03]:

Well, yes, you gotta get on a call with them, but I honestly believe that Beyond the call, you have there has to be sort of like a vetting period. Like, if I’m on somebody’s email list for 3 months or I’m looking at their social media, I’m gonna know exactly how much they actually put into promoting an event that they’re in. Mhmm. And you can also see what the response is like. Yes. So if they’ve got 10,000 people on Instagram and they put a post out for an event and they’ve got, like, 8 hearts and 2 comments, well

Jennie Wright [00:59:33]:

and also yes. That is that’s a bad thing. But the other thing is I watch I watch the video of the people that I want because there’s some surprises that can come out. And I’ve had clients who have been like, yeah. I I want, you know, Joe Schmo on my thing. And then they get on the interview with Joe Schmo, and Joe Schmo talks like a piece of cardboard. Like, they have that much depth. Right? Or, an example of one of my clients when she got on the call with the person, the person had barking dogs and chirping birds.

Jennie Wright [01:00:10]:

That’s called professionalism. Yes. Right? So they’re they’re like, I can’t even use this interview because all you can hear is the barking dogs and the chirping birds, and I love dogs.

Jason Wiehler [01:00:19]:

But nobody should be afraid to hold people accountable to production value or anything else. No. Like, I mean, that’s the deal.

Jennie Wright [01:00:25]:

Nope. I

Jason Wiehler [01:00:26]:

asked you to be on the event. I want you to be involved. I wanna collab with you. Here’s the deal. If people start to, like, miss or don’t hold their end to the bargain, You have every reason to say, hey. Look. You know what? You’re not promoting, or this doesn’t fit within what we were expecting or what we discussed, So it’s not gonna work. You have to be able to cut bait.

Jennie Wright [01:00:49]:

Absolutely. Right? Absolutely. But you should be that cut bait process should not happen when the summit is live and that cut bait process should be happening because you’ve done your due diligence to build community, a relationship, you’ve gotten to know them, you’ve followed their social, and so on. Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [01:01:03]:

It’s due diligence.

Jennie Wright [01:01:04]:

Yeah. You should I mean, you’re cutting bait before you even get to the 1st date. Yep. Oh, never mind.

Jason Wiehler [01:01:09]:

Yeah. So speaking of, like, people holding to their promises, how’s your website going? It’s

Jennie Wright [01:01:22]:

a work in progress for the past ever. No I I I have a deadline. My deadline is mid January 2024 to get it completed. So I’m Oh

Jason Wiehler [01:01:32]:

you said it publicly now so everybody can hold you to it.

Jennie Wright [01:01:35]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [01:01:37]:

That’s good.

Jennie Wright [01:01:37]:

Absolutely. This is like, it’s I mean, it’s been a thing for

Jason Wiehler [01:01:39]:

I get it. You’re busy probably with a lot of clients and everything like that, big projects, because For you and a lot of other people, it’s like this is the time of year where all these projects come to a climax and finish

Jennie Wright [01:01:52]:

Oh.

Jason Wiehler [01:01:52]:

When it comes up to American Thanksgiving. And then after that, there’s sort of like there’s a period where events aren’t going live, but people are already They’re already in the throes of planning what is going to happen in January February where they have to where they have to actually do more lead generation. They have to generate sales to start off the new year strong. So even though it looks like a big pause, it’s actually the planning stage and the setup stage and the Things are already starting to starting to come to well, they’re starting to firm up.

Jennie Wright [01:02:28]:

Totally. It might look externally right now it might look like I’m on a pause but I am not on a pause. I have a bunch of projects that are all coming ahead and I am taking, quote, unquote, 2 weeks off at Christmas, but those aren’t weeks off. Those are pure website content creation, everything.

Jason Wiehler [01:02:45]:

Yeah. And you’ll still probably have client work to do.

Jennie Wright [01:02:48]:

I’m trying well, I’m

Jason Wiehler [01:02:49]:

definitely still have clients that are that are gonna be, like, Executing in January, and you already gotta start working on their stuff probably before that.

Jennie Wright [01:02:57]:

Yes. But I’ve put but I have boundaries this year.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:00]:

I know you have boundaries. I’m just

Jennie Wright [01:03:01]:

curious. Like, don’t talk to me.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:03]:

Yeah. Everybody can take, like, the week or the 2 weeks or whatever, but there’s still there’s not a void. No. It’s not happening in a pod.

Jennie Wright [01:03:12]:

I have projects that are bridging Christmas and New Year’s

Jason Wiehler [01:03:15]:

Exactly.

Jennie Wright [01:03:15]:

All the time. I have client projects that are bridging all the time. But my goal is is that the week and a half before Christmas and the week between Christmas and New Year’s is all about my website so that it’s it’s done. I don’t need the stress because I have to have it done before I go and speak in at the end of January.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:33]:

I suggest you go into the new year with it done.

Jennie Wright [01:03:37]:

Let’s plan. I mean, there’s gonna be a couple day well, it depends on the builder. Right? So I’ll have all the content. It depends on how fast the builder is.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:44]:

Right.

Jennie Wright [01:03:45]:

I mean, it’s Christmas. The builder the person that’s gonna build it may not wanna work over that time.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:50]:

Right. Fair

Jennie Wright [01:03:51]:

enough. Nothing I can do about that.

Jason Wiehler [01:03:54]:

That’s true.

Jennie Wright [01:03:59]:

What would if you could make all the right changes for the upcoming year so that things went the way you wanted them to, what would you do to change and operate better?

Jason Wiehler [01:04:18]:

For myself?

Jennie Wright [01:04:19]:

Yeah.

Jason Wiehler [01:04:21]:

I am I think I’m impactful for the people that know me, But I feel I hold myself invisible most of the time. So I think for me, I think I have to extend myself outward, and I need to promote, obviously, and I need to I need to reach out. I need to I need to become more visible because I’m I’m great with a network of word-of-mouth. That’s not a problem. Mhmm. But when it comes to, like, when it comes to actually building more My organic audience of people that I don’t know, fresh.

Jennie Wright [01:05:05]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [01:05:06]:

That’s something that that I need to really really nailed down. And I’ve always had this plan, a very efficient strategic plan of, okay, this is how I’m gonna go about tackling this. This is exactly where I wanna post. This is how I’m going my consistency plan is all there. Right?

Jennie Wright [01:05:24]:

Mhmm.

Jason Wiehler [01:05:25]:

It’s just a matter of executing it, and I’m also the type of person that feels I have to sort of have, like, a story line, a long Tail story line of of what comes after this, the one after the other, the after. It’s almost like a plot, like different chapter words all all the way along when it comes to my social media. And that might be the thing that holds me up, but I think I’m there. I think I can do it. Right? So It’s executing off, that kind of thing. I wanna I wanna change that. I wanna be more upward bound.

Jennie Wright [01:06:04]:

Oh, deliberate? Deliberate. Do you think you can do it?

Jason Wiehler [01:06:11]:

I know I can do it. It’s just a matter of doing it.

Jennie Wright [01:06:14]:

Are you going to?

Jason Wiehler [01:06:15]:

Yes I’m going to.

Jennie Wright [01:06:17]:

Alright. Public declarations, I like this.

Jason Wiehler [01:06:20]:

Well that’s that’s that’s my goal anyways. What’s yours?

Jennie Wright [01:06:26]:

What am I gonna do differently? Change and do better? Yeah. Well, having the website done is gonna be a huge milestone. I mean, I have a website. It’s just not to the level or or anything that I want it to be. So having the website done for the beginning of this year is going to feel tremendous. One of the big goals that I had for 2024, I actually finished this year and it was unexpected, which was a new brand, like a new looking logo, a new title, and things like that. That’s been in I mean, it was something that was talked about, way back in, like, June or July, but it came to fruition in November. I’m really excited about that.

Jennie Wright [01:07:05]:

So, putting that brand forth in the new year is gonna create some consistency in that in sort of that brand, awareness that I talked about earlier and that I’m really excited about.

Jason Wiehler [01:07:15]:

Yeah. I’ve seen it, and it’s good.

Jennie Wright [01:07:17]:

It’s it’s awesome. I’m really really really really fortunate to work with somebody who has done a lot of, little girls and we’re very lucky.

Jason Wiehler [01:07:31]:

Lucky that you actually connected with a very good graphic designer.

Jennie Wright [01:07:35]:

Yes. Yeah, I was really really lucky.

Jason Wiehler [01:07:37]:

Well, I’ve connected with the same person too. But

Jennie Wright [01:07:39]:

Yes. You’re you

Jason Wiehler [01:07:40]:

could have gone. I know who you’re talking about. Yeah. And, obviously, you know, in future, we will give that person all the credit as you launch.

Jennie Wright [01:07:48]:

Yes. I will definitely talk about that person more in more detail when everything is, like, settled

Jason Wiehler [01:07:52]:

Sure.

Jennie Wright [01:07:53]:

And and definitely give that person credit because they deserve it.

Jason Wiehler [01:07:56]:

Yeah. So what’s your prediction for next year? How do you think things are gonna go? What do you think is gonna happen next year?

Jennie Wright [01:08:01]:

For myself?

Jason Wiehler [01:08:02]:

You can say whatever. You can say whether it’s for yourself, for the business, whatever.

Jennie Wright [01:08:07]:

Predictions, I think, for 2024, I’m gonna I’m gonna start with personal ones. My prediction for myself in 2024 is that I’m finally gonna get my stride in terms of, like, social media speaking, I wanna do a lot more speaking, so I’m actually investing the time and effort in being on on other people’s podcasts and growing this one. So my prediction for 2024 is this podcast will grow month over month, which is absolutely a goal. It’s something I’ve never been able to, like, perfectly master It

Jason Wiehler [01:08:39]:

is growing.

Jennie Wright [01:08:40]:

I know. I know. I mean, the numbers are nuts, and I didn’t expect that. Not this early. I mean, we’re only on episode 15 high, but I’m really excited about it. So I I see the potential for that growth, so I definitely wanna see that. I still think that for 2024, for myself, I will be switching a little bit of my direction. I won’t be doing as many summits, but the summits that I will be doing will be of a level that I’m really excited about they’re gonna be deep.

Jennie Wright [01:09:10]:

They’re gonna be, they’re gonna have a lot of levels, probably lots of spreadsheets, but the outcome of those could be and they will be. I know they will be, like, multi six figure just for the amount of planning that goes into them, the type of clientele that I’m looking forward to working with and things doesn’t mean I’m not gonna work on some smaller summits because I will in smaller events and bundles and all those kinds of things, but I definitely can see that happening. And I’m increasing my knowledge for 2024 in terms of, like, marketing and strategy. So this is gonna be a year of, like, of absorbing more information for me. Within my space, my prediction is that, 2024 is gonna be largely based on community building and creating, relationships with people that you can trust versus just the sort of like, what do you call it? When you don’t know somebody that well, like, the acquaintance side of things. I think people really wanna get to know somebody, and I think you gotta let bigger your stand, we’ll make that happen.

Jason Wiehler [01:10:17]:

Good. Sounds like good.

Jennie Wright [01:10:19]:

I think so. Okay. Looking forward to it. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah. This is a long episode, but it is fun. Yeah. We’re in.

Jennie Wright [01:10:28]:

Oh oh, last prediction. We’re gonna do more of these in 2024.

Jason Wiehler [01:10:33]:

Oh, really?

Jennie Wright [01:10:33]:

Well, you need to I mean, you only get a sticker. You need to pass it up.

Jason Wiehler [01:10:36]:

That’s fine. I’ll I’ll do 1 every quarter. Absolutely Every quarter. Every, like, 16 15, 16 weeks, whatever.

Jennie Wright [01:10:43]:

Okay. Deal. Absolutely. I mean, this is We’ll

Jason Wiehler [01:10:46]:

see what’s what in March For February. I’m not sure when that’ll be.

Jennie Wright [01:10:50]:

Yeah. We’ll we’ll get it we’ll get it sorted. We’ll get you on the podcast again. A lot

Jason Wiehler [01:10:53]:

can change by

Jennie Wright [01:10:55]:

a lot probably will change. This is so much fun I really appreciate it. If anybody wants to get to know me better where can they find you?

Jason Wiehler [01:11:02]:

You can find me at jasonmueller.com, or you can email me at jason@jasonmueller.com.

Jennie Wright [01:11:07]:

There you go.

Jason Wiehler [01:11:07]:

But my name isn’t spelled normal. It’s the German spelling. It’s w I e h l e r, but you’ll probably see it in the notes anyways.

Jennie Wright [01:11:15]:

Absolutely. Everything will be on the show notes. I’ll make sure it’s there. And as always, you’ll have a lot of fun editing and producing this podcast once we’ve stopped hitting record because that’s one of the great things that you do for us.

Jason Wiehler [01:11:26]:

I will remove anything that didn’t make sense.

Jennie Wright [01:11:29]:

Everything made sense. It was all good. There’s no there’s not gonna be any editing on this one. So just to read us out, the Acquire podcast is produced and edited by the great Jason Mueller and if you found this 1 ups this episode to be valuable, please think about subscribing and leaving a review, I’d love to hear from you and thanks for being part of the community that I’m trying to build and grow more deeply. One of the ways that you can do that is follow me on social. All of my social platforms will be on the show notes as well as consider being part of my Facebook group where I try and help people absolutely as much as I can! The acquire podcast has been brought to you by the oddphonic podcast network. Thanks so much!